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<Shelwien> | ... | 2009-11-28 16:44:32 |
<Krugz> | ya I'm back | 2009-11-28 17:15:08 |
| I didn't get much sleep | 2009-11-28 17:15:14 |
<Shelwien> | I guess I didn't either ;) | 2009-11-28 17:17:28 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-28 17:17:39 |
| ok well | 2009-11-28 17:18:02 |
| I'm gonna put on some music and start working on my edsac assignment | 2009-11-28 17:18:14 |
<Shelwien> | what kind of music btw? | 2009-11-28 17:18:35 |
<Krugz> | uh I listen to a lot of stuff, but I'd say my taste in music is pretty weird overall | 2009-11-28 17:18:54 |
| I'd say I'm mostly into older rock, techno/trance, and some heavy metal | 2009-11-28 17:19:55 |
| but I also listen to Immediate Music and X-Ray dog a lot, which I'm not sure how to classify exactly... instrumental and orchestra groups I suppose | 2009-11-28 17:20:43 |
<Shelwien> | well, i kinda got tired of what i usually listened, searching something new | 2009-11-28 17:22:36 |
| can you recommend something impressive (to you) eg. on youtube? | 2009-11-28 17:22:51 |
<Krugz> | sure, anything you really don't like? | 2009-11-28 17:23:39 |
| what kinda things have you been listening to? It'd be a waste if I linked stuff you already listen to lol | 2009-11-28 17:24:25 |
<Shelwien> | well, Metallica etc | 2009-11-28 17:25:20 |
<Krugz> | did you like the song "One" by Metallic? | 2009-11-28 17:26:30 |
| a* | 2009-11-28 17:26:33 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWnpwV63KiY | 2009-11-28 17:26:39 |
| ^--- here's something interesting, it's Slam by Pendulum | 2009-11-28 17:26:51 |
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<Shelwien> | well, I guess I don't like DJ stuff | 2009-11-28 17:28:52 |
| hi schnaader | 2009-11-28 17:29:00 |
<schnaader> | Hi folks | 2009-11-28 17:29:12 |
| Hi Shelwien | 2009-11-28 17:29:16 |
| Just thought I might have a look at the IRC channel - I always got bored by those crowded IRC channels where nobody says anything - think that could be quite different here - less people, better chat ;) | 2009-11-28 17:30:10 |
<Krugz> | ah ok then.. 1 sec | 2009-11-28 17:30:19 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGnAzkh9kn0 | 2009-11-28 17:30:39 |
<Shelwien> | schnaader: we are trying to find something for me to listen ;) | 2009-11-28 17:30:51 |
<Krugz> | I'm trying to just single out the interesting ones | 2009-11-28 17:30:54 |
| these guys are really cool imo | 2009-11-28 17:31:52 |
<schnaader> | Hm... video is not accessible for me (germany) - copyright stuff :( | 2009-11-28 17:32:03 |
<Krugz> | :O | 2009-11-28 17:32:09 |
| lets see... | 2009-11-28 17:32:13 |
<Shelwien> | apocalyptica, yeah, i really like that song too | 2009-11-28 17:32:26 |
| its even included in my wav testset ;) | 2009-11-28 17:32:43 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JjQGt7WjK0 | 2009-11-28 17:32:48 |
| ah ok then you already know about them :P | 2009-11-28 17:32:54 |
<schnaader> | \m/ yay, Apocalyptica is great :) | 2009-11-28 17:33:03 |
<Krugz> | let's see what else.. | 2009-11-28 17:33:03 |
| do you know of/like Muse? | 2009-11-28 17:33:21 |
<Shelwien> | not sure | 2009-11-28 17:33:31 |
<Krugz> | kk sec | 2009-11-28 17:33:36 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btjVnTLn6og | 2009-11-28 17:33:56 |
<schnaader> | Muse is a bit moody for my taste, but it depends on my own mood :) | 2009-11-28 17:34:10 |
<Krugz> | youtube kinda kills the crisp quality of music, so for music like this, it kinda sounds bad but... eh | 2009-11-28 17:34:26 |
| ya Muse has some emotion to their music | 2009-11-28 17:34:45 |
<Shelwien> | as to sound quality, i wonder if they do that intentionally | 2009-11-28 17:35:07 |
| its really bad there | 2009-11-28 17:35:14 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhLRxui7vXU | 2009-11-28 17:35:28 |
<schnaader> | It depends, some clever people know how to upload good quality music, but most people just upload it with the default settings which give crappy quality, I suppose | 2009-11-28 17:35:33 |
<Shelwien> | but no, not muse either, i guess | 2009-11-28 17:35:54 |
<Krugz> | well the actual music was probably too high quality so the uploader tampered with it, and is probably an amateur... so it got messed | 2009-11-28 17:36:02 |
| that's ok, I'm just testing the waters to see what you might like :P | 2009-11-28 17:36:16 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAiTHUaEkCQ | 2009-11-28 17:37:10 |
<schnaader> | I'd recommended Gamma Ray - but that's a big leap from Apocalyptica/Muse, so you might just ignore it ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPw9P12d1Zc | 2009-11-28 17:38:07 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op5YQXyvQP0 <---- Loud warning :P | 2009-11-28 17:38:30 |
<Shelwien> | relatively recently i stumbled on this song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in4wcKl4qiE | 2009-11-28 17:38:33 |
| kinda liked it and got whole oasis discography | 2009-11-28 17:38:47 |
<Krugz> | ah ya | 2009-11-28 17:39:05 |
| Oasis is pretty good | 2009-11-28 17:39:08 |
<Shelwien> | and then found that i can't really remember any other song there | 2009-11-28 17:39:10 |
<Krugz> | not particularly my style | 2009-11-28 17:39:13 |
<Shelwien> | same here, but i'm searching for something new ;) | 2009-11-28 17:39:32 |
<Krugz> | gamma ray actually seems pretty good, thanks | 2009-11-28 17:39:48 |
| oh how bout.. | 2009-11-28 17:40:07 |
<schnaader> | They just brought out a new very nice album, that's why I listen to them very much at the moment. | 2009-11-28 17:40:27 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mipc-JxrhRk | 2009-11-28 17:40:42 |
| ah I see | 2009-11-28 17:40:52 |
<Shelwien> | that xray is kinda too repeatable and i have nothing against vocals ;) | 2009-11-28 17:41:13 |
<Krugz> | hehe | 2009-11-28 17:41:36 |
<Shelwien> | (might be a good sample for compression though ;) | 2009-11-28 17:41:37 |
<Krugz> | I like their epic-feel | 2009-11-28 17:41:53 |
| but I know what you mean, it's ok :P | 2009-11-28 17:41:57 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idd_92ajjwY | 2009-11-28 17:42:37 |
<Shelwien> | i guess i'd try gamma ray, though that youtube version is far from impressive | 2009-11-28 17:43:12 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO4Usj3hHNc | 2009-11-28 17:43:51 |
| ^-- old but great imo | 2009-11-28 17:44:00 |
<Shelwien> | Evanescence i know, might be an idea too, i should have it somewhere | 2009-11-28 17:45:25 |
<schnaader> | Just downloaded newest mIRC for not having to rely on the webchat and to have a local log - will (hopefully :P) be back in a minute | 2009-11-28 17:45:55 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUuvIi3UFK4 | 2009-11-28 17:46:04 |
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<schnaader> | yay it works :) | 2009-11-28 17:46:40 |
<Shelwien> | ;) | 2009-11-28 17:46:51 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LjbMVXj0F8 | 2009-11-28 17:47:04 |
| :P | 2009-11-28 17:47:08 |
<Shelwien> | schnaader: as to logs, we have this though - http://ps16893.dreamhost.com/log/ | 2009-11-28 17:47:26 |
| and even some search here | 2009-11-28 17:47:40 |
| !grep youtube | 2009-11-28 17:47:44 |
<Krugz> | lol nice | 2009-11-28 17:48:15 |
<Shelwien> | i guess, apollo440 is not serious enough, though i know that song too | 2009-11-28 17:49:22 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Qp38qT-xI&feature=fvst | 2009-11-28 17:50:36 |
<Shelwien> | not black sabbath either, i guess | 2009-11-28 17:51:02 |
<Krugz> | well I'm assuming you've already listened to ACDC, Led Zepplin, Ozzy , etc.? | 2009-11-28 17:51:04 |
<Shelwien> | sure ;) | 2009-11-28 17:51:12 |
<Krugz> | hmm | 2009-11-28 17:51:19 |
<schnaader> | Gorillaz at least have very nice vids - I like the kind of 3D comic style a lot. | 2009-11-28 17:51:43 |
<Shelwien> | nah, i need some background music to work ;) | 2009-11-28 17:52:04 |
<Krugz> | do like hardcore rap? | 2009-11-28 17:52:51 |
* Krugz is not a fan of rap, but has 2 songs that he likes | 2009-11-28 17:53:04 |
<Shelwien> | same here i guess | 2009-11-28 17:53:17 |
<schnaader> | Do vocals distract you, so you want something something more instrumental? | 2009-11-28 17:53:18 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70awZ0Sx0hY | 2009-11-28 17:53:34 |
<Shelwien> | no, i'm ok with vocals, if they're not russian ;) | 2009-11-28 17:53:41 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-drZnOqh9A | 2009-11-28 17:54:09 |
| ^-- rap but one of the few rap songs I can actually stand | 2009-11-28 17:54:23 |
<schnaader> | Could also recommend the german folk metal band Equilibrium - some of their songs have a carribean feeling that reminds me of Monkey of Island :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO8-iYzG5FE | 2009-11-28 17:56:08 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QYIlgRg9TY | 2009-11-28 17:56:23 |
<schnaader> | Although there are just half as good if you can't understand the lyrics :) | 2009-11-28 17:56:28 |
<Shelwien> | something funny btw - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0IYlVns4_s | 2009-11-28 17:56:57 |
| that's computer-generated vocals | 2009-11-28 17:57:36 |
<schnaader> | But finding music to work/code with is very hard, I'm always switching between not listening to anything at all and just shuffling my complete music collection | 2009-11-28 17:57:46 |
<Shelwien> | kinda same here, but i already got bored from it all | 2009-11-28 17:58:07 |
<schnaader> | Could recommend some web player like Pandora for that, although http://xkcd.com/668/ :) | 2009-11-28 17:59:07 |
<Krugz> | lolol | 2009-11-28 17:59:37 |
| xkcd is great :D | 2009-11-28 17:59:41 |
| total genius | 2009-11-28 17:59:53 |
<schnaader> | And additionally, those web stations are quite bad in guessing what I like to hear... | 2009-11-28 18:00:01 |
<Krugz> | did I already link Hoobastank? | 2009-11-28 18:00:22 |
<schnaader> | Yes, I found out about it some years ago - it'll just give you so much "Man, that's exactly what I was thinking about" moments :) | 2009-11-28 18:00:44 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q30-2QpZVc | 2009-11-28 18:00:56 |
<Shelwien> | Hoobastank might be ok - is there a whole album like that? | 2009-11-28 18:01:30 |
| not rap i guess | 2009-11-28 18:02:41 |
<Krugz> | ya a lot of music like that | 2009-11-28 18:03:02 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70awZ0Sx0hY | 2009-11-28 18:03:18 |
| another hoobastank song | 2009-11-28 18:03:23 |
| faster paced | 2009-11-28 18:03:28 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnaeImQ0TSg&translated=1 | 2009-11-28 18:04:37 |
| ^-- can't understand a single word but I think it's great! :D | 2009-11-28 18:04:49 |
<schnaader> | That's interesting - almost all of your links aren't accessible for me :) I don't like that YouTube doesn't seem to display the title of the restricted video, but only shows some alternatives that are close to it, so you can't just have a look if there's some unrestricted version of exactly the same video. | 2009-11-28 18:05:28 |
<Krugz> | hmm no fun | 2009-11-28 18:06:36 |
<Shelwien> | need a proxy. | 2009-11-28 18:06:39 |
<Krugz> | heh | 2009-11-28 18:06:43 |
<schnaader> | That last one worked (and actually is quite nice:) | 2009-11-28 18:07:08 |
<Krugz> | :D | 2009-11-28 18:07:13 |
| they're goofy and fun :) | 2009-11-28 18:07:27 |
<schnaader> | Yeah, I'm sure there would be some way to override it using a proxy or perhaps just registering at YouTube, but I'm too lazy to try atm :) | 2009-11-28 18:07:51 |
<Shelwien> | schnaader: as to proxy, i wonder if http://ctxmodel.net/px would work for you | 2009-11-28 18:08:00 |
<schnaader> | Hmm.. will have a quick try. | 2009-11-28 18:08:25 |
<Shelwien> | just uncheck "remove scripts" there | 2009-11-28 18:08:32 |
<schnaader> | Hmm.. almost works, now the restriction message is in English instead of German :D | 2009-11-28 18:09:18 |
| Guess they use some still accessible information to find out which country the request is from... | 2009-11-28 18:09:57 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHwSk8bFS4M&translated=1 | 2009-11-28 18:10:02 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_ryNJVreiY <-- don't watch the video, just listen for music | 2009-11-28 18:14:21 |
<schnaader> | Damn, it's only 3 more days of /dev/null/nethack and I didn't reach Gehennom so far... anyone playing Nethack here? :) | 2009-11-28 18:15:55 |
<Shelwien> | schnaader: i started a socks5 proxy 69.163.206.237:8888 - wanna try? ;) | 2009-11-28 18:15:56 |
<Krugz> | I've played it a bit but | 2009-11-28 18:16:14 |
<Shelwien> | i did play moria and nethack under dos a long time ago ;) | 2009-11-28 18:16:21 |
<Krugz> | I'm so unlucky, there's no way I'll ever beat it | 2009-11-28 18:16:23 |
<Shelwien> | i used weird tactics in nethack though | 2009-11-28 18:17:14 |
<Krugz> | you threw food at all your opponents? | 2009-11-28 18:17:32 |
<Shelwien> | like getting a summon monster spell and leveling up really high at the shop level ;) | 2009-11-28 18:17:37 |
<Krugz> | ah I never got that good really | 2009-11-28 18:17:54 |
<schnaader> | I guess almost everyone uses strange tatics - there's just so much you don't know most time and act dumb because of it :) | 2009-11-28 18:18:07 |
<Krugz> | I died from so many silly things | 2009-11-28 18:18:22 |
| I remember when I died from kicking a wall T.T | 2009-11-28 18:18:37 |
<Shelwien> | well, gameplay balance problems make it boring usually | 2009-11-28 18:19:22 |
| like accidentally killing all the quest people because they were too weak ;) | 2009-11-28 18:19:58 |
<Krugz> | it's not supposed to be a fair game XD | 2009-11-28 18:20:02 |
<schnaader> | Actually, I find these balance problems what keeps the game playable - I'm playing some years now pretty regularly and I can see I keep getting better and better, but just can't win the game :)) | 2009-11-28 18:20:23 |
<Krugz> | most people say it took them roughly 4~8 years to beat it | 2009-11-28 18:20:47 |
| a few claim 2 years | 2009-11-28 18:20:56 |
<Shelwien> | the version i played didn't have an end really | 2009-11-28 18:21:00 |
| i even looked up what to do in the source | 2009-11-28 18:21:28 |
<schnaader> | Some weeks ago, there was a rnrg post about someone who said "My first win - played 3 months" and everyone said "Meh - that's not how you should play Nethack... but HOW did you do that?" :) | 2009-11-28 18:21:33 |
<Shelwien> | ;) | 2009-11-28 18:21:45 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-28 18:21:46 |
| ya I saw that actually | 2009-11-28 18:21:51 |
| imo, that's gotta be fake >.> | 2009-11-28 18:21:57 |
| but then again | 2009-11-28 18:22:25 |
<schnaader> | I think this is doable if you move spoilers very much and are very cautios, but it's definitely not easy. | 2009-11-28 18:22:30 |
<Krugz> | people win the lottery sometimes, so I guess the odds are abou the same | 2009-11-28 18:22:35 |
<schnaader> | -move +use | 2009-11-28 18:22:36 |
| Oh, I think odds in Nethack are much lower if you haven't played it for long :) | 2009-11-28 18:23:16 |
<Krugz> | lol imagine someone beating it on their first try ahaha | 2009-11-28 18:23:42 |
<schnaader> | Hehe like "Yeah Nethack, I know that game - got bored after winning with every class once - after a week, I stopped playing" :D | 2009-11-28 18:24:16 |
<Krugz> | XD | 2009-11-28 18:24:23 |
<Shelwien> | its possible like with save/load ;) | 2009-11-28 18:24:41 |
<Krugz> | after playing nethack for a while, I picked up a text-based MUD | 2009-11-28 18:24:52 |
| well of course it's possible if you cheat :P | 2009-11-28 18:25:15 |
<schnaader> | Yeeees, but even with save/load it's still hard - you won't beat it if you don't know what to do and what you have to do to get there | 2009-11-28 18:25:29 |
<Krugz> | could build an AI to play for you | 2009-11-28 18:25:45 |
| and make it step through a different decision tree for every replay XD | 2009-11-28 18:25:59 |
<schnaader> | I'm actually playing with the thought of doing a Nethack bot sometimes, but I'm too lazy to compile my own version and think about how to insert the bot functionality there | 2009-11-28 18:26:35 |
<Krugz> | ya I'm always like that, I want to do something like make a bot but I have no idea where to even start -.- | 2009-11-28 18:27:12 |
<schnaader> | Strange that there is no such project around, but there has been some discussion about it and I think people just change to doing bots for other games in the process because it's easier :) | 2009-11-28 18:27:43 |
<Krugz> | I would think something like nethack is easier because it's turn based | 2009-11-28 18:28:21 |
<schnaader> | Well, I'd try to grab the on-screen buffer from somewhere, analyse it and send keystrokes afterwards. That wouldn't be too hard and all you'd need to start with. | 2009-11-28 18:29:03 |
<Krugz> | ah see I didn't even think about that kind of thing | 2009-11-28 18:29:23 |
<schnaader> | Yes, turn-based is definitely nice - especially as you won't have timing problems and can think about a move some seconds. | 2009-11-28 18:29:32 |
<Krugz> | besides I have no idea how to grab on-screen buffer -.-' | 2009-11-28 18:29:34 |
* Krugz is a noobbbb | 2009-11-28 18:29:46 |
<Shelwien> | isn't it terminal-based? | 2009-11-28 18:30:17 |
| there're should be input and output streams | 2009-11-28 18:30:34 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwxDhdXjgCs | 2009-11-28 18:30:37 |
| I suppose so? | 2009-11-28 18:30:42 |
<Shelwien> | like, you can play it via some network tunnel etc | 2009-11-28 18:31:14 |
| like telnet | 2009-11-28 18:31:31 |
<schnaader> | Well, but there are routines to display everything on the screen you can modify, and there are offline versions of Nethack :) | 2009-11-28 18:31:36 |
<Shelwien> | well, modifying the program for the bot seems kinda boring | 2009-11-28 18:32:16 |
| btw http://cbloom.com/poker/GoldBullion.html | 2009-11-28 18:32:47 |
<schnaader> | Not if you only use those parts of the game the player will know, too. | 2009-11-28 18:32:49 |
<Krugz> | heh | 2009-11-28 18:33:07 |
| one of my friends dropped out of college to become professional poker player | 2009-11-28 18:33:21 |
| he's pretty rich now >.>; | 2009-11-28 18:33:26 |
<Shelwien> | %) | 2009-11-28 18:33:29 |
<Krugz> | bought a house in pennsylvania for himself and his GF, and a BMW | 2009-11-28 18:33:39 |
<schnaader> | Somehow reminds me of these people that went using some laser systems and genius calculations to win Roulette games in Vegas some time ago - that's a nice example of "Science - it works, bitches" :) | 2009-11-28 18:34:16 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_UGFLT0VMY | 2009-11-28 18:34:47 |
| XD | 2009-11-28 18:34:57 |
| ya I guess so | 2009-11-28 18:35:01 |
| could always become a super card counter | 2009-11-28 18:35:12 |
<schnaader> | Yeeah, Manowar :) | 2009-11-28 18:35:20 |
<Shelwien> | yeah ;) | 2009-11-28 18:35:25 |
| btw, proxy doesn't work? | 2009-11-28 18:35:56 |
<schnaader> | Ah, switched my settings, but forgot about it, wait I'll try one of those vids that didn't work before. | 2009-11-28 18:36:25 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5ZbdDDNz3c | 2009-11-28 18:37:05 |
<schnaader> | Nope, doesn't work - although I'm not 100% sure I configured Firefox correctly, but it can still access everything, so I guess it is correct :) | 2009-11-28 18:37:38 |
<Shelwien> | you have to set it to socks5 | 2009-11-28 18:37:49 |
| its not a plain "proxy" like in explorer | 2009-11-28 18:38:05 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4b3MBkOx5k | 2009-11-28 18:38:46 |
<schnaader> | Hmm.. set to socks5, but still no luck... | 2009-11-28 18:39:55 |
<Shelwien> | youtube? | 2009-11-28 18:40:24 |
<schnaader> | Perhaps I'll do some web research later to see how this YouTube restrictions work and if they can be bypassed somehow. | 2009-11-28 18:40:32 |
<Shelwien> | well, at least it seems like proxy works now ;) | 2009-11-28 18:40:52 |
<schnaader> | Your lights are blinking, huh? :) | 2009-11-28 18:41:08 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUZyEbdQpPE <-- same band as last link, different song | 2009-11-28 18:41:11 |
<schnaader> | Hehe, just wanted to post an Ace of Spades link, too, because it's my favorite Mötorhead song. | 2009-11-28 18:42:18 |
<Krugz> | XD | 2009-11-28 18:42:22 |
<Shelwien> | i know that band too, but don't quite like | 2009-11-28 18:42:47 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zu6dC8UGh4 | 2009-11-28 18:43:56 |
| soon I'm going to exhaust my "normal" music and we're going to start seeing weird music... :P | 2009-11-28 18:44:18 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81aJmjUK08s | 2009-11-28 18:44:38 |
<Shelwien> | well, its actually enough i guess - i'm already sleepy ;) | 2009-11-28 18:44:42 |
<Krugz> | try that last one | 2009-11-28 18:44:50 |
| forgot about them, but you might like them | 2009-11-28 18:44:56 |
<schnaader> | Oh, I'd like to feel sleepy, damn weekend makes me time-shift somehow - woke up some hours ago at 5pm thinking "Damn, it's dark outside AGAIN" :) | 2009-11-28 18:47:21 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-28 18:48:06 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWNnqCDElHc <-- Hell Song, Sum 41 | 2009-11-28 18:49:06 |
<schnaader> | I prefer Bloodhound Gang for "Comedy Pop/Rock" or however you want to name it :) | 2009-11-28 18:50:15 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOgH_HXgHTM | 2009-11-28 18:50:28 |
<Shelwien> | somehow that "southern sun" seems usable, but not "powerman" | 2009-11-28 18:50:29 |
<Krugz> | gotcha | 2009-11-28 18:50:41 |
<Shelwien> | 41=42-1? | 2009-11-28 18:51:13 |
<schnaader> | No, 42 has to be the answer, so 41+1=42 :) | 2009-11-28 18:51:48 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnHBMVOSbuQ | 2009-11-28 18:52:05 |
| XD | 2009-11-28 18:52:11 |
| it's SUM 41, can't be a subtraction! | 2009-11-28 18:52:22 |
<Shelwien> | no, its called sum 41. not bad btw | 2009-11-28 18:52:23 |
<Krugz> | he means 42 because | 2009-11-28 18:52:35 |
| 42 is the meaning of life | 2009-11-28 18:52:40 |
<Shelwien> | well, we all know that it seems | 2009-11-28 18:52:59 |
<schnaader> | I really wish google would give something funny for 42 like it does for recursion :) | 2009-11-28 18:53:42 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C86oH5RwyJg | 2009-11-28 18:53:47 |
| lol | 2009-11-28 18:53:52 |
<Shelwien> | wolframalpha did, i think | 2009-11-28 18:54:06 |
<Krugz> | House of the Rising Sun, great song :) | 2009-11-28 18:54:15 |
<schnaader> | Yes, it does indeed :) | 2009-11-28 18:54:17 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk9RRnpFg24 | 2009-11-28 18:55:50 |
| Keasbey Nights - Street Light Manifesto | 2009-11-28 18:56:06 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWSxELGNShk | 2009-11-28 18:57:13 |
| Toxicity - System of a Down | 2009-11-28 18:57:25 |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajy0w1XPJk8 | 2009-11-28 18:59:09 |
| Chasing Cars - Snow Patrol | 2009-11-28 18:59:15 |
<schnaader> | I wonder if there's any way to generate this bWSxELGNShk hash from the song/video title except for checking YouTube - would help for compression :) Although I guess these are just some unique database hashes not related to the video information | 2009-11-28 18:59:26 |
<Shelwien> | yeah | 2009-11-28 18:59:50 |
<Krugz> | ya probably | 2009-11-28 18:59:50 |
| I would think it's just a randomly generated value | 2009-11-28 19:00:04 |
<schnaader> | I always like googling for MD5/SHA1 hashes instead of filenames for downloads :) You'll get most of the working mirrors with one google search that way :) | 2009-11-28 19:01:27 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byhcdd6_eKk | 2009-11-28 19:01:37 |
| never knew :o | 2009-11-28 19:01:49 |
| <3 this song... | 2009-11-28 19:02:04 |
| strong music imo :) | 2009-11-28 19:02:28 |
<Shelwien> | there's this btw: http://audiotag.info/ | 2009-11-28 19:04:28 |
<Krugz> | cool | 2009-11-28 19:05:02 |
<schnaader> | Really like the Sidology trilogy from Machinae Supremacy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzX7MY2U41k | 2009-11-28 19:05:23 |
<Shelwien> | sorry, going afk now | 2009-11-28 19:05:32 |
<Krugz> | ok bye bye | 2009-11-28 19:06:03 |
<schnaader> | OK, see ya | 2009-11-28 19:06:07 |
<Shelwien> | sounds like a tracker music ;) | 2009-11-28 19:06:39 |
| well, bye ;) | 2009-11-28 19:06:42 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6zDfxZ4NcE ^.^ | 2009-11-28 19:09:08 |
<schnaader> | Nah, better use this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy-H-KJRYbw ^^ | 2009-11-28 19:09:49 |
| That's the first time I see dashes in hashes *lol* | 2009-11-28 19:10:28 |
<Krugz> | ? | 2009-11-28 19:13:31 |
| lol saber rider? XD | 2009-11-28 19:13:47 |
<schnaader> | I meant the - characters in the YouTube links, have seen some underscores in those before, but - seem to be quite unusual | 2009-11-28 19:14:38 |
<Krugz> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1ieA-1vDEQ&feature=related | 2009-11-28 19:14:47 |
| ^--- there's another one | 2009-11-28 19:14:52 |
<schnaader> | Hmm.. don't know "Lupin the third" - I thought I knew almost everyone of those 90s TV anime series, seems I don't | 2009-11-28 19:16:37 |
<Krugz> | it's older then 90s | 2009-11-28 19:16:45 |
| it's way back | 2009-11-28 19:16:48 |
<schnaader> | Yes, most of them are older, but much of them were shown in german TV in the 90s, that's why I call them like this :) | 2009-11-28 19:17:50 |
<Krugz> | oic | 2009-11-28 19:17:59 |
| random question for you, any chance you know anything about Edsac? | 2009-11-28 19:18:15 |
| particulary, how to program for it | 2009-11-28 19:18:25 |
| have a homework assignment involving programming for an Edsac emulator but I can't seem to get it working | 2009-11-28 19:19:38 |
<schnaader> | Saw the Wikipedia link in the log Shelwien posted in the forum :) No, never heard of it before... | 2009-11-28 19:19:52 |
<Krugz> | ah ok | 2009-11-28 19:20:09 |
<schnaader> | Is there some reference or sample code of how it looks like around? | 2009-11-28 19:20:10 |
<Krugz> | ya | 2009-11-28 19:20:15 |
| I have plenty | 2009-11-28 19:20:19 |
| 1 sec.. | 2009-11-28 19:20:22 |
<schnaader> | Ah, just seen the "Edsac Simulator" link | 2009-11-28 19:20:35 |
<Krugz> | http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac/ | 2009-11-28 19:20:38 |
| ya | 2009-11-28 19:20:40 |
<schnaader> | This looks weird - but interesting, too :) | 2009-11-28 19:20:57 |
<Krugz> | the downloads come with sample code and PDFs | 2009-11-28 19:20:58 |
| basically the edsac is one of those ancient relic computers | 2009-11-28 19:21:28 |
| they used giant tanks filled with mercury to store data | 2009-11-28 19:21:38 |
<schnaader> | Ah, these green dots are LEDs, right? | 2009-11-28 19:21:49 |
<Krugz> | ya they represent the stores | 2009-11-28 19:22:06 |
| each row is a store | 2009-11-28 19:22:12 |
| each sqaure is a tank | 2009-11-28 19:22:16 |
| basically it operates like a typical von neumann architecture | 2009-11-28 19:22:54 |
| the stores are the memory, the accumulator is sort of like the ALU | 2009-11-28 19:23:21 |
| the smaller special stores are like registers | 2009-11-28 19:23:38 |
| there's a Program counter etc etc | 2009-11-28 19:23:52 |
<schnaader> | Ah, I see the architectur diagram, yes, seems quite familiar so far | 2009-11-28 19:24:07 |
<Krugz> | originally you would code by using punch cards | 2009-11-28 19:24:23 |
<schnaader> | Except that this seems to be the pre-mnemonic time, the code looks quite cryptic... | 2009-11-28 19:24:52 |
<Krugz> | but obviously that's very painful so the emulator has a sort of slightly higher level langauge using a combination of letters and numbers | 2009-11-28 19:24:57 |
| so like | 2009-11-28 19:25:01 |
<schnaader> | Ah yes, punch cards explains this, of course | 2009-11-28 19:25:03 |
<Krugz> | A 34 F | 2009-11-28 19:25:12 |
| is Add the data stored in location 34 to the register | 2009-11-28 19:25:27 |
| the F denotes the length of the instruction | 2009-11-28 19:25:37 |
| if it's F, it's 17-bits | 2009-11-28 19:25:49 |
| if it's D, it's 3500bits | 2009-11-28 19:26:00 |
| err | 2009-11-28 19:26:04 |
| 35-bit* | 2009-11-28 19:26:08 |
| first bit in all instructions isn't writable so it's disregarded, each store is 18 bits so.. (18 - 1) 17 bits, double is (18 + 18 -1) 35 bits | 2009-11-28 19:26:59 |
<schnaader> | Just seeing this in the PDF - 17 and 35 bit registers, funny. Must be quite strange to do a compiler/simulator for this only having the choice between 32 and 64 bit on todays machines :) | 2009-11-28 19:26:59 |
<Krugz> | :P | 2009-11-28 19:27:11 |
| ya I'm sure it was fun for them XD | 2009-11-28 19:27:27 |
<schnaader> | Although I'd stick to 64 bit in this case, 32+3 seems like a way too complicated way to go | 2009-11-28 19:27:51 |
<Krugz> | hmm maybe | 2009-11-28 19:28:21 |
| anyhow, the problem I'm having is that I can't seem to get anything to work properly at all | 2009-11-28 19:28:39 |
<schnaader> | Using greek characters is another interesting thing | 2009-11-28 19:28:45 |
<Krugz> | it should be pretty simple, for example, to add a value to the accumulator and then store it somewhere | 2009-11-28 19:28:59 |
| ya not sure why they chose to do that | 2009-11-28 19:29:13 |
<schnaader> | So what have you done so far or - to start with - what is the task you have to do? | 2009-11-28 19:29:32 |
<Krugz> | All I have to do is add 4 numbers together | 2009-11-28 19:29:52 |
| I don't have to use user-input or anything fancy | 2009-11-28 19:30:02 |
| and I don't have to print an output to the console either | 2009-11-28 19:30:08 |
| just need to store the final sum into a store | 2009-11-28 19:30:18 |
<schnaader> | Ah, so you have to write the Edsac code for this? | 2009-11-28 19:30:26 |
<Krugz> | yes | 2009-11-28 19:30:32 |
| it seems really easy just looking at it but | 2009-11-28 19:30:45 |
| it just doesn't work for me lol | 2009-11-28 19:31:00 |
| I went ahead and did the other assignments already | 2009-11-28 19:31:12 |
<schnaader> | Hmm.. I just see the "Cubes" program in that PDF, seems quite counter-intuitive indeed :) | 2009-11-28 19:32:02 |
<Krugz> | like programming a VSM (Virtual Stack Machine), and a MIPS architecture, as well as programming a real ATtiny .. | 2009-11-28 19:32:03 |
| well one of the things you have to realize is that there is code running that you can't see | 2009-11-28 19:32:31 |
| there's 2 "intial order" set | 2009-11-28 19:32:42 |
| s* | 2009-11-28 19:32:44 |
| typically you use order set 2 | 2009-11-28 19:32:53 |
| it sets up the edsac for use basically | 2009-11-28 19:33:07 |
| and one of the things you wouldn't know about it is that the first 2 lines in your code won't be read normally | 2009-11-28 19:33:24 |
| the first line sets up a loader or something like that | 2009-11-28 19:33:37 |
| and the 2nd line does something else too.. can't remember atm | 2009-11-28 19:33:47 |
| but even so | 2009-11-28 19:36:16 |
| it's just weird | 2009-11-28 19:36:19 |
| it should be easy to run the program with commands like | 2009-11-28 19:36:30 |
<schnaader> | Yes it seems to be a very strange thing - programming MIPS must have been like a relief after that :) | 2009-11-28 19:36:35 |
<Krugz> | A 1 F | 2009-11-28 19:36:36 |
| T 64 F | 2009-11-28 19:36:42 |
| ya MIPS was cake | 2009-11-28 19:36:56 |
| ok well I'll start working on that again | 2009-11-28 19:39:42 |
<schnaader> | Wonder we didn't hear anything about this thing at university - our prof had brought up some similar weird architectures in the course. | 2009-11-28 19:39:53 |
| Good luck, I fear you'd be finished until I'd be ready to help you with it :) | 2009-11-28 19:40:25 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-28 19:40:33 |
| I'm not that far along :P | 2009-11-28 19:40:40 |
| umm idk my professor is pretty intense, we're going off the MIT course | 2009-11-28 19:41:16 |
| on one hand it makes me really glad I didn't get into MIT, on the other hand it makes me really sad that I didn't get into MIT -.-; | 2009-11-28 19:41:50 |
<schnaader> | I think I know what you mean :) | 2009-11-28 19:42:31 |
| It would be interesting to do, but you are glad you don't have to :) | 2009-11-28 19:43:21 |
<Krugz> | well for me, it's more about laziness vs. productiveness | 2009-11-28 19:43:38 |
<schnaader> | Laziness is a thing about us humans that would be soo nice to live without... | 2009-11-28 19:45:15 |
* Krugz nods | 2009-11-28 19:45:31 |
| Sometimes I write brilliant code two days in a row and really get somewhere and on other days I can't get me to start with something although I'd really like to... | 2009-11-28 19:47:14 |
<Krugz> | ya same here, except I don't write brilliant code :P | 2009-11-28 19:47:42 |
| my laziness has set me back far enough that I'm way under-par for what I should know by now | 2009-11-28 19:48:17 |
<schnaader> | Do you know http://projecteuler.net/ ? If you want to improve your coding skills, this is one of the first places to go - except if you don't like math exercices :) | 2009-11-28 19:49:48 |
<Krugz> | I don't mind math but I think math hates me :P | 2009-11-28 19:50:11 |
<schnaader> | :) | 2009-11-28 19:50:42 |
<Krugz> | I have a bad history when it comes to math | 2009-11-28 19:51:12 |
| thanks for the site, I'll check it out later | 2009-11-28 19:51:57 |
<schnaader> | Especially if you solved one of the problems there, you get access to a discussion board for it where others post their solution in many different programming languages which can be very interesting. | 2009-11-28 19:53:35 |
<Krugz> | hmm ok | 2009-11-28 19:54:33 |
<schnaader> | You might even have a chance to stumble about some Edsac code there :) | 2009-11-28 19:54:58 |
<Krugz> | my cat is being a pest.. | 2009-11-28 19:58:55 |
<schnaader> | Why? Is she jumping around or does she just still want more food? | 2009-11-28 19:59:48 |
| err -she +it - to make it proper english :) | 2009-11-28 20:00:45 |
<Krugz> | he* anyways | 2009-11-28 20:02:31 |
<schnaader> | Then it was even more wrong :) | 2009-11-28 20:02:49 |
<Krugz> | and he's trying to bite my cords, then dragging bread off my plate and running under the bed with it | 2009-11-28 20:02:57 |
<schnaader> | BAD cat :) | 2009-11-28 20:03:15 |
<Krugz> | bored cat | 2009-11-28 20:03:23 |
<schnaader> | :) | 2009-11-28 20:03:34 |
| Put him in the washing machine then won't get bored there :P Ouch... that was a mean joke | 2009-11-28 20:04:49 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-28 20:08:25 |
| bored cat => dead cat -.-;; | 2009-11-28 20:08:45 |
* Krugz sighs | 2009-11-28 20:11:22 |
| this edsac stuff is annoying! | 2009-11-28 20:11:36 |
<schnaader> | Can imagine that :) Especially if one knows it could be so much easier to add some numbers :) | 2009-11-28 20:12:05 |
<Krugz> | XD | 2009-11-28 20:12:13 |
| if professor!=happy, a = a + n, else print "yay done" XD | 2009-11-28 20:12:57 |
<schnaader> | Although I usually love such challenges - but I'd choose Brainfuck as language :) | 2009-11-28 20:13:17 |
| XD | 2009-11-28 20:13:37 |
<Krugz> | I remember a guy made a langauge once where everything was represented as a single character.. | 2009-11-28 20:13:41 |
| don't remember what it was called | 2009-11-28 20:13:50 |
| the instructions looked like jibberish | 2009-11-28 20:14:04 |
| very cryptic | 2009-11-28 20:14:10 |
<schnaader> | Hmm.. in Brainfuck, each instructions is a single character and there are only 8 instructions :) | 2009-11-28 20:14:35 |
<Krugz> | ah I think this person I'm talking about used a larger instruction set | 2009-11-28 20:14:57 |
<schnaader> | Hello World in BF looks like this: >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.[-] | 2009-11-28 20:15:23 |
| >++++++++[<++++>-] <.>+++++++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.--------.+++ | 2009-11-28 20:15:23 |
| .------.--------.[-]>++++++++[<++++>- ]<+.[-]++++++++++. | 2009-11-28 20:15:23 |
| Hmm.. somehow that got formatted into 3 lines :) | 2009-11-28 20:15:48 |
<Krugz> | probably a newline IRC character somewhere in there | 2009-11-28 20:16:05 |
<schnaader> | Ah no, I see... the website I got it from has wrapped the lines. | 2009-11-28 20:16:29 |
<Krugz> | oic | 2009-11-28 20:16:40 |
| I wish I had my whiteboard with me | 2009-11-28 20:17:48 |
| I bought a big whiteboard for doing stuff where I needed a lot of writing space | 2009-11-28 20:18:08 |
| (at the time I was taking a classes called Numerical Analysis, it was hellish) | 2009-11-28 20:18:26 |
| (not coincidentally, it was lead by the same professor I have now for this class :P) | 2009-11-28 20:18:49 |
<schnaader> | Ah this is useful, indeed. Although I managed to be content with Pen&Paper or text files :) | 2009-11-28 20:19:04 |
<Krugz> | well the work was very complicated and often you needed to make complicated graphs just ot understand what was actually happening | 2009-11-28 20:19:47 |
<schnaader> | Although I must agree it is much more useful to have much space especially for math things | 2009-11-28 20:20:00 |
<Krugz> | I remember we formed a study group and it would take us 4 hours of deliberate work to finish a single problem.. it was hard | 2009-11-28 20:20:07 |
| it's basically a math + engineering + computer science + critical thinking class all wrapped into one bundle with lots of merciless problems and a professor who was aiming to finish the entire book | 2009-11-28 20:21:26 |
*** matt_ has joined the channel | 2009-11-28 20:22:11 |
| you'd get a problem, have to come up with an approach to solve it, show that it could work, and finally implement it in matlab | 2009-11-28 20:22:11 |
<schnaader> | Sounds heavy indeed :) | 2009-11-28 20:22:14 |
<Krugz> | anyways... back to work :P | 2009-11-28 20:23:02 |
<schnaader> | Good luck - again :) | 2009-11-28 20:23:18 |
<Krugz> | brb gonna grab some stuff to help me | 2009-11-28 20:23:18 |
<schnaader> | OK | 2009-11-28 20:23:29 |
*** matt_ has left the channel | 2009-11-28 20:27:02 |
<Krugz> | the professor's said, "I could spends weeks programming to save myself a few hours of reading.", to make fun of the way students nowadays don't want to read even if it means doing more work. So, looks like I'm gonna sit and read the manual for a while | 2009-11-28 20:43:14 |
<schnaader> | Yes, this is a quite useful advice, although it shouldn't stop people from programming anyways :) | 2009-11-28 20:47:35 |
*** pinc has joined the channel | 2009-11-28 20:48:16 |
<Krugz> | well he was just saying that because a lot of students were complaining about his assignments, without ever trying to read any of the lecture material | 2009-11-28 20:48:18 |
| so his argument was that people were trying to program without reading and it was going to take forever | 2009-11-28 20:48:35 |
<schnaader> | Ah, I see. | 2009-11-28 20:49:02 |
<Krugz> | I need to find somewhere more comfortable to sit and read, I'll be back later, bye | 2009-11-28 20:51:10 |
<schnaader> | :) bye | 2009-11-28 20:51:47 |
*** pinc has left the channel | 2009-11-28 21:38:34 |
| Ah, you're back again - have you been successful? | 2009-11-28 22:17:29 |
<Krugz> | had to help clean up tree poop (leaves) | 2009-11-28 22:18:40 |
<schnaader> | XD nice term :) | 2009-11-28 22:18:59 |
<Krugz> | that's how I see it | 2009-11-28 22:19:08 |
<schnaader> | I've been quite successful in starting another Nethack game - I'm at level 12 now having an AC of -22 :) | 2009-11-28 22:21:26 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-28 22:22:13 |
| um I probably only played about a week, inconsistently | 2009-11-28 22:22:30 |
| so I don't think I got much further then level 9~10 | 2009-11-28 22:22:49 |
<schnaader> | Yes, I had those times, too, but then I decided to actually try to play and win that game - so I started playing more often. Still not getting anywhere to win it, but getting better and better :) | 2009-11-28 22:24:52 |
<Krugz> | eh I have people bugging me to play other games with them so | 2009-11-28 22:27:25 |
| I tend to focus on those | 2009-11-28 22:27:29 |
<schnaader> | Hehe, have that too, also made the mistake to start WoW two months ago, this game is sooo addicting ;) | 2009-11-28 22:28:16 |
<Krugz> | meh | 2009-11-28 22:30:23 |
| I played WoW for about a year | 2009-11-28 22:30:27 |
| beat just about everything, then Wotlk came out, and i beat everything there within a week, so I got bored and dropped the game | 2009-11-28 22:30:44 |
<schnaader> | Yeah, guess this will be the same for me, too. You're getting too good in this game too fast - it's just the opposite of Nethack :D | 2009-11-28 22:32:29 |
<Krugz> | eh well | 2009-11-28 22:33:08 |
| WoW is fairly easy | 2009-11-28 22:33:16 |
| and then they noobs complained and whined forever | 2009-11-28 22:33:28 |
| and they made it easier | 2009-11-28 22:33:31 |
| so more noobs showed up, who were even worse and they complained... | 2009-11-28 22:33:43 |
| so now basically I could sleep walk to lv 80 and then solo most of the game | 2009-11-28 22:33:56 |
<schnaader> | :) | 2009-11-28 22:34:51 |
<Krugz> | it's kinda sad actually, but oh well | 2009-11-28 22:35:42 |
| I didn't ever really like WoW much anyways | 2009-11-28 22:35:52 |
| I played because people in my area played | 2009-11-28 22:35:59 |
| but they're all ADD-prone, so they get distracted and switch games every 5-10 minutes | 2009-11-28 22:36:20 |
| meaning I was the only one actually playing most of the time, most of my experience playing with them was helping them catch up to me, which most of them never did -.- | 2009-11-28 22:36:47 |
<schnaader> | Yes, playing with other people this is one of the main things that can make this game entertaining (or stop it being like in your case). | 2009-11-28 22:38:48 |
<Krugz> | ya | 2009-11-28 22:39:20 |
| well MM in MMO isn't really meaningful if you play alone | 2009-11-28 22:39:33 |
<schnaader> | It's getting better - I'm at dungeon level 25 now and below that is the level I have to get to to get the tournament trophy I want :) | 2009-11-28 23:16:33 |
<Krugz> | have you ever heard of a mote? | 2009-11-28 23:18:44 |
<schnaader> | Doesn't ring any bell, no... | 2009-11-28 23:19:13 |
<Krugz> | it's an interesting bit of technology, still pretty new | 2009-11-28 23:19:28 |
| http://computer.howstuffworks.com/mote.htm/printable | 2009-11-28 23:19:42 |
<schnaader> | Ah, I've heard of smart dust before, but just know the term, haven't read anything about it. | 2009-11-28 23:20:30 |
* Krugz nods | 2009-11-28 23:21:06 |
| I always wish I had more knowledge in electronics - you can do pretty nice stuff with embedded systems and alike. | 2009-11-28 23:26:52 |
<Krugz> | ya | 2009-11-28 23:27:41 |
| I'm doing some stuff with embedded systems right now | 2009-11-28 23:27:55 |
| it's not as bad as I thought it would be tbh | 2009-11-28 23:28:00 |
<schnaader> | Why did you think it was bad? Too hard or not powerful enough? | 2009-11-28 23:29:11 |
<Krugz> | I thought it'd be a lot more complicated | 2009-11-28 23:29:24 |
| not that it's always easy, I mean I've only worked with very simple chips but | 2009-11-28 23:29:45 |
| it's seems reasonable | 2009-11-28 23:29:57 |
| it* | 2009-11-28 23:30:00 |
<schnaader> | Yes, I also heard that with the right toolkit, it's only putting the whole thing together and you can start working with it right away. | 2009-11-28 23:30:54 |
<Krugz> | ya basically | 2009-11-28 23:32:09 |
<schnaader> | Sounds very interesting, would like to do something like this, too. | 2009-11-28 23:35:04 |
<Krugz> | do you know anything about Soft Subs in video? | 2009-11-28 23:35:33 |
| someone is asking some stuff but I can't really help them | 2009-11-28 23:35:41 |
| it's relatively easy | 2009-11-28 23:36:08 |
| http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=212 | 2009-11-28 23:36:10 |
| and cheap | 2009-11-28 23:36:14 |
<schnaader> | Well, basically it should be about creating a file like SRT, SUB or something else and give it the same name as the video file, or do you only talk about using a Subs file? | 2009-11-28 23:36:34 |
<Krugz> | "we're trying to like get MKV Soft Subs with video encoded together.... convert it to avi and play it on Wii" | 2009-11-28 23:37:28 |
| that's what they told me | 2009-11-28 23:37:43 |
| they're trying to encode softsubs with Super Media Converter | 2009-11-28 23:38:01 |
| and they aren't sure if it's possible | 2009-11-28 23:38:07 |
<schnaader> | OK, this sounds like a bit of more work as I'm able to - especially the "play it on Wii" part should be very hard and I have no idea how to do that. | 2009-11-28 23:38:23 |
<Krugz> | http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/card2313 <--- board we used with that ^ chip up there | 2009-11-28 23:38:25 |
| well | 2009-11-28 23:38:32 |
| I think getting it into AVI format is all he needs | 2009-11-28 23:38:39 |
| with the subs still intact | 2009-11-28 23:38:48 |
| I'm sure Wii just natively supports AVI or something like that, probably why they are aiming for it | 2009-11-28 23:39:03 |
<schnaader> | Hmm... have they tried VirtualDub for converting the video? If it can read the format, it should be easy to convert it to avi. | 2009-11-28 23:39:47 |
<Krugz> | will it keep the subs though? | 2009-11-28 23:40:47 |
| if they're soft, not hard subs | 2009-11-28 23:41:01 |
<schnaader> | Hmm.. I guess it won't keep them, but if they are soft subs, they should be able to extract them out of the container somehow. | 2009-11-28 23:41:43 |
| And I'm not sure if the Wii will support Soft Subs... | 2009-11-28 23:42:00 |
<Krugz> | I think that's the point | 2009-11-28 23:42:07 |
| they want to encode the soft subs into the video, to make them hard subs | 2009-11-28 23:42:20 |
| and then convert the video with the hard subs into AVI | 2009-11-28 23:42:30 |
| http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_37663.htm | 2009-11-28 23:43:34 |
| I think that's it | 2009-11-28 23:43:36 |
<schnaader> | Hmm.. VirtualDub doesn't seem to support Subtitle/text filters, that would have been what I've tried. It could be possible with VirtualDubMod, but I'm pretty out of knowledge now :) | 2009-11-28 23:44:43 |
| Ah, this forum entry seems useful, yes. | 2009-11-28 23:46:25 |
<Krugz> | :P | 2009-11-28 23:48:14 |
<schnaader> | Is this the entry of the people that need help? | 2009-11-28 23:48:50 |
<Krugz> | no | 2009-11-28 23:51:57 |
| it's something I just found to try to help them | 2009-11-28 23:52:05 |
| btw.. this video is really interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q75KhAeqJg&NR=1 | 2009-11-28 23:52:14 |
<schnaader> | Yeah, so I got it right. Just wondered :) | 2009-11-28 23:52:19 |
| Hehe - yes I'm also quite fascinated by the technology evolving. If you think about what you can do with modern PCs, how much possibilities they offer you and how quick it gets even better than this... | 2009-11-28 23:59:02 |
<Krugz> | ya but I wonder what'll happen to the US, we really do seem like we're falling behind in almost everything nowadays | 2009-11-29 00:00:42 |
| except for spending, probably :P | 2009-11-29 00:01:04 |
<schnaader> | Hmm.. don't know.. as long as the chinese or indians won't take over the world and kill everybody, it's not that bad :) | 2009-11-29 00:03:02 |
| Now I can't get "Right here, right now" out of my head :D | 2009-11-29 00:04:31 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-29 00:07:29 |
<schnaader> | I mean if open source trends continue, it won't matter - everybody will be working together on solving worldwide problems... | 2009-11-29 00:08:39 |
| But of course that isn't sure and worrying about what could happen is reasonable. | 2009-11-29 00:09:23 |
<Krugz> | My cynical/pessimistic side says whenever large groups of people work together, the larger faction always presumes it should gain more then the small faction, it'll never be equal | 2009-11-29 00:11:08 |
| as long as there are nations, seeing another nation grow powerful is scary | 2009-11-29 00:11:22 |
<schnaader> | That's true. | 2009-11-29 00:12:26 |
| Yay, I've even defeated Vlad the Impaler in my current Nethack game, so I'll get an even better trophy :) | 2009-11-29 00:25:54 |
| Dungeon level 42 now O_o | 2009-11-29 00:31:07 |
<Krugz> | that was fast | 2009-11-29 00:33:19 |
<schnaader> | Well, I've been lucky :) I played the whole month in this tournament and I never got past lvl 16 or so :) | 2009-11-29 00:35:02 |
| This character would even have a chance to win the game.... if someone more skilled would play it :D | 2009-11-29 00:35:59 |
<Krugz> | lol pff | 2009-11-29 00:36:40 |
<schnaader> | Gremlins everywhere... I hate it when they come in contact with water ;) | 2009-11-29 00:52:59 |
<Krugz> | O.o | 2009-11-29 00:53:58 |
<schnaader> | Gonna wake the Wizard of Yendor up now! Hope I get the Book of the Dead from him, that would perhaps get me another trophy :) | 2009-11-29 00:54:17 |
<Krugz> | @.@ too far ahead for me, I never even made it to questing lol | 2009-11-29 00:54:44 |
<schnaader> | Here's what my stethoscope says about the Wizard: Status of the Wizard of Yendor (chaotic): Level 30 HP 108(125) AC -8, invisible | 2009-11-29 00:55:37 |
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| Yay, I have the Book of the Dead :) | 2009-11-29 00:56:22 |
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| Connection refused? ;) | 2009-11-29 00:57:30 |
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| 775375 schnaader-Val-Hum-Fem-Neu turned to stone in Gehennom on level 46. Petrified by a cockatrice corpse. 154 [154] | 2009-11-29 01:03:19 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-29 01:03:31 |
<schnaader> | Well, at least I killed the Wizard of Yendor twice and got the Book of the Dead :) | 2009-11-29 01:03:47 |
<Krugz> | :P | 2009-11-29 01:03:53 |
<schnaader> | Now I'm content :) | 2009-11-29 01:04:14 |
| And I see ASCII characters everywhere :P | 2009-11-29 01:05:43 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-29 01:06:27 |
| I use the GUI, I'm a cheater | 2009-11-29 01:06:33 |
<schnaader> | Yes, I use the GUI too normally (although I don't consider this cheating as it doesn't help so much), but telnet/ssh on the tournament servers doesn't support that. | 2009-11-29 01:07:35 |
<Krugz> | ya | 2009-11-29 01:07:50 |
<schnaader> | Hehe, now I can use this image: http://nethack.devnull.net/graphics/2009/TheSteelStar_Large.png | 2009-11-29 01:09:55 |
| Have to eat something now - these nethack games are quite exhausting :) | 2009-11-29 01:11:48 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-29 01:12:14 |
<schnaader_afk_yummy> | I knew there was something wrong with the spelling :) | 2009-11-29 01:15:57 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-29 01:16:59 |
| nah I just assumed you were jummy :D | 2009-11-29 01:17:05 |
<schnaader_afk_yummy> | lol didn't know that word existed :) Seems to be a slang word, is it? | 2009-11-29 01:18:53 |
<Krugz> | sure... it means to be very jum | 2009-11-29 01:19:26 |
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<schnaader_afk_yummy> | lol http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jummy - "An Asian man on a jetski" XD | 2009-11-29 01:21:09 |
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<Krugz> | lololol | 2009-11-29 01:22:20 |
| I've never even heard of that | 2009-11-29 01:22:24 |
| welcome back | 2009-11-29 01:44:53 |
| little late ;P | 2009-11-29 01:44:59 |
<schnaader> | Hehe, well I'm still eating what I've cooked, so it's not too late :) | 2009-11-29 01:45:55 |
| Just having a look at the Edsac PDF - this is very interesting, though I still try to understand how the Squares program works :) | 2009-11-29 01:48:17 |
<Krugz> | I think I've given up lol | 2009-11-29 01:49:20 |
| it's too painful and I'm too distracted | 2009-11-29 01:49:31 |
<schnaader> | Yes, I can understand this... You'll just lose some points on your homework, won't you? Or do you want to retry this later? | 2009-11-29 01:50:30 |
<Krugz> | ah sorry | 2009-11-29 02:50:31 |
| um I'll have another chance | 2009-11-29 02:50:39 |
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| wb? | 2009-11-29 03:26:12 |
| I'll be back later, bye | 2009-11-29 03:35:55 |
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<sami> | hi! | 2009-11-29 10:55:36 |
| I added a very small update to the bwt page, a table listing approx mem use for each compressor | 2009-11-29 10:59:04 |
| I'm taking this day to add something to comp.ratings. I'm currently running book1 benchmark to all compressors. I intend to add a new special test that has several known test files (tested separately of course) | 2009-11-29 11:02:45 |
<pinc> | thanks for your efforts | 2009-11-29 11:10:39 |
<Shelwien> | hi sami | 2009-11-29 11:10:59 |
<sami> | any test files that you would like to see included? I was thinking maybe couple of calgary corpus files (obj2, geo, book1) and perhaps some max.comp files? I'm not adding rafale or world95 | 2009-11-29 11:12:57 |
| and probably not the dll if I add the acrord32 | 2009-11-29 11:13:28 |
<Shelwien> | there's my test corpus if you need any (two actually) | 2009-11-29 11:13:31 |
<sami> | yeah, I'm looking for small files, since all compressors will be tested (paqs included) | 2009-11-29 11:14:03 |
<pinc> | enwik6? | 2009-11-29 11:14:26 |
<Shelwien> | i mean this http://www.ctxmodel.net/sh_samples_1.rar | 2009-11-29 11:14:58 |
<sami> | yeah, perhaps enwik6 is good as well | 2009-11-29 11:14:59 |
| Shelwien, but I'm trying to find known test files | 2009-11-29 11:15:14 |
<Shelwien> | these are a little known already | 2009-11-29 11:15:33 |
| there're a few people in the forum who use them | 2009-11-29 11:15:43 |
<sami> | I'm trying to specifically address the people who have used to read simple tests that benchmark a single file and list the results. this new test will not have ratings | 2009-11-29 11:16:22 |
<Shelwien> | well, i'll post a file description in a minute | 2009-11-29 11:17:04 |
<sami> | Shelwien, ok I'm downloading, although I recall seeing that package already | 2009-11-29 11:17:06 |
<Shelwien> | sure ;) | 2009-11-29 11:17:14 |
<sami> | ok | 2009-11-29 11:17:14 |
<Shelwien> | anyway, it contains a (kinda finnish) dictionary (permutated wordlist for password cracking actually) | 2009-11-29 11:17:53 |
<sami> | oh forgot one thing, I'm planning to add lena, probably using bmp or ppm | 2009-11-29 11:17:54 |
<Shelwien> | and cygwin /bin and /lib in tared files | 2009-11-29 11:18:27 |
| bookstar 35594240 russian SF books in plaintext from lib.ru | 2009-11-29 11:18:32 |
| cyg_bin 52459520 tar archive of /cygwin/bin | 2009-11-29 11:18:32 |
| cyg_lib 95436800 tar archive of /cygwin/lib | 2009-11-29 11:18:32 |
| enwik8 100000000 enwik8 | 2009-11-29 11:18:32 |
| finn_lst 31851425 a finnish dictionary for password cracker | 2009-11-29 11:18:32 |
| gits2op_mkv 64368429 GITS2 OP (NTV 1024x576 x264 24f AAC 5.1ch).mkv | 2009-11-29 11:18:33 |
| <total> 379710414 | 2009-11-29 11:18:35 |
| and russian text which is an important example of non-english texts ;) | 2009-11-29 11:18:51 |
<sami> | ok now I recall this package. in fact I have it already in my test file directory under shelwien1\* | 2009-11-29 11:19:04 |
<Shelwien> | %) | 2009-11-29 11:19:16 |
<sami> | if I add non-english test file I think it's better to take it as far as possible. it appears gutenberg has only a single book in sanskrit. do you know any sanskrit book that we could use? | 2009-11-29 11:23:31 |
| "The 1000 Names Of Lord Vishnu" :-) | 2009-11-29 11:24:03 |
<Shelwien> | we can find some content probably, but i doubt there'd be enough | 2009-11-29 11:24:10 |
| and anyway, nobody would need to compress sanskrit | 2009-11-29 11:24:34 |
| if anything, i'd suggest dna sequences | 2009-11-29 11:24:53 |
<sami> | the intention with russian text is to have something obscure, but I expect several compressors might be tuned to russian | 2009-11-29 11:25:24 |
<Shelwien> | like 3-5 maybe | 2009-11-29 11:25:57 |
| i can also suggest japanese | 2009-11-29 11:26:14 |
| as i can collect enough content for it, both OCRed and in jpegs | 2009-11-29 11:26:46 |
| but that would be problematic considering copyrights | 2009-11-29 11:27:18 |
| while my bookstar is certainly legal | 2009-11-29 11:27:30 |
<sami> | bhagavad gita etc are here http://sacred-texts.com/hin/index.htm but not in plain text format I see | 2009-11-29 11:28:05 |
<Shelwien> | in that sense | 2009-11-29 11:28:12 |
| there's probably wiki dumps for different languages too | 2009-11-29 11:28:29 |
| *there're | 2009-11-29 11:28:36 |
<sami> | I could add finnish for obscurity, but probably that would be interpreted as bias | 2009-11-29 11:30:45 |
<Shelwien> | well, i think that'd be ok | 2009-11-29 11:31:25 |
| unless you'd also add a special filter for finnish ;) | 2009-11-29 11:31:51 |
<sami> | btw have you seen this. 2253 word-forms for the finnish noun 'shop' http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~fkarlsso/genkau2.html | 2009-11-29 11:35:28 |
* Shelwien goes to buy a suggested book | 2009-11-29 11:36:38 |
| finnish would certainly be filter resistant to a some degree | 2009-11-29 11:37:33 |
<Shelwien> | still, i think stuff like chinese/japanese might be more important | 2009-11-29 11:38:12 |
| as it also has multibyte letters | 2009-11-29 11:38:32 |
<sami> | yes, some large alphabet language file would be interesting as well I guess | 2009-11-29 11:42:24 |
<Shelwien> | http://download.wikimedia.org/zhwiki/20091123/ | 2009-11-29 11:51:46 |
<sami> | but is that in simplified chinese? | 2009-11-29 11:54:47 |
<Shelwien> | there're other dumps too | 2009-11-29 11:55:06 |
| also i'd suggest http://devel.ush.it/devel/web-databank/ | 2009-11-29 11:55:13 |
<sami> | is that eur/usd history? | 2009-11-29 11:56:02 |
<Shelwien> | that too | 2009-11-29 11:56:15 |
| the point is that there're lots of data in binary tables (with ieee doubles afair) | 2009-11-29 11:56:42 |
<sami> | do you have sp500 or oil? | 2009-11-29 11:56:44 |
<Shelwien> | sp500 i've seen somewhere, but not atm, and didn't see oil | 2009-11-29 11:57:15 |
| the original source is http://www.alpari.co.uk/en/dc/databank.html btw | 2009-11-29 11:58:24 |
| but apparently traffic volume became too large and they took it down | 2009-11-29 11:58:50 |
<sami> | the eurusd data has ticker symbol for ascii tables for each line. the xpo data is weird, some file references in the header etc | 2009-11-29 11:59:35 |
<Shelwien> | well, i only have a local copy of alpari data from 21.02.09 | 2009-11-29 12:00:11 |
| 00000000: 90 01 00 00 43 6F 70 79 ¦ 72 69 67 68 74 20 A9 20 ÐO Copyright é | 2009-11-29 12:00:29 |
| 00000010: 32 30 30 35 2C 20 41 6C ¦ 70 61 72 69 20 4C 74 64 2005, Alpari Ltd | 2009-11-29 12:00:30 |
| 00000020: 2E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ¦ 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 . | 2009-11-29 12:00:30 |
| 00000030: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ¦ 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 | 2009-11-29 12:00:30 |
| 00000040: 00 00 00 00 41 55 44 55 ¦ 53 44 00 00 00 00 00 00 AUDUSD | 2009-11-29 12:00:30 |
| 00000050: A0 05 00 00 04 00 00 00 ¦ 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ঠ¦ | 2009-11-29 12:00:30 |
| 00000060: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ¦ 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 | 2009-11-29 12:00:32 |
| 00000070: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ¦ 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 | 2009-11-29 12:00:34 |
| 00000080: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ¦ 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 | 2009-11-29 12:00:37 |
| 00000090: 00 00 00 00 80 54 CD 12 ¦ 00 00 00 00 C1 B9 F1 3F ÀT=¦ +¦¸? | 2009-11-29 12:00:38 |
| 000000A0: 00 00 00 A0 67 B3 F1 3F ¦ 00 00 00 20 83 C0 F1 3F àg¦¸? ÃL¸? | 2009-11-29 12:00:40 |
| 000000B0: 00 00 00 00 C1 B9 F1 3F ¦ 00 00 00 00 00 00 F0 3F +¦¸? ¨? | 2009-11-29 12:00:42 |
| 000000C0: 00 A6 CE 12 00 00 00 60 ¦ 17 B7 F1 3F 00 00 00 60 æ+¦ `¦¬¸? ` | 2009-11-29 12:00:44 |
| 000000D0: 17 B7 F1 3F 00 00 00 60 ¦ 17 B7 F1 3F 00 00 00 60 ¦¬¸? `¦¬¸? ` | 2009-11-29 12:00:46 |
<sami> | I think there was something called "opentick" but it got shut down earlier this year. it was free api and server for real time stock data. I once tried to retrieve historical data there but the api didn't seem simple enough for me and I didn't want to spent time learning it | 2009-11-29 12:01:34 |
<Shelwien> | you can get some quotes from yahoo finance | 2009-11-29 12:02:00 |
<sami> | yes, but problem with the daily quotes is that there just isn't enough data for benchmark | 2009-11-29 12:02:31 |
<Shelwien> | there're historical data too | 2009-11-29 12:02:42 |
| its just very annoying to fetch them | 2009-11-29 12:02:51 |
<sami> | right, I mean even with multi year historical data daily quotes | 2009-11-29 12:03:08 |
| probably 100 years of sp500 would be only 200k or something | 2009-11-29 12:03:46 |
| with open,close,low,hi,vol | 2009-11-29 12:04:04 |
<Shelwien> | there should be more than daily quotes somewhere | 2009-11-29 12:04:19 |
<sami> | I think the most interesting would be an ultra high resolution intra day data | 2009-11-29 12:04:57 |
<Shelwien> | well, there's a minute data in these alpari forex files | 2009-11-29 12:05:31 |
| i have 183M zipped for multiple currencies | 2009-11-29 12:05:48 |
<sami> | then it appears I downloaded wrong samples, all I got was daily quotes | 2009-11-29 12:06:28 |
<Shelwien> | ftp://ftp.ddbj.nig.ac.jp/ddbj_database/genomes/Viruses/Influenza/Influenza_A_virus.ff.gz | 2009-11-29 12:06:57 |
| err... well, i can upload my copy | 2009-11-29 12:07:51 |
<sami> | so were you talking about these files that you gave link to? I mean the minute data? | 2009-11-29 12:08:28 |
| eur/usd | 2009-11-29 12:08:42 |
<Shelwien> | sure | 2009-11-29 12:08:52 |
| 65.8M unpacked for eur/usd | 2009-11-29 12:09:10 |
<sami> | ok, sorry, I was blind | 2009-11-29 12:09:48 |
<Shelwien> | you mean D1 instead of M1? ;) | 2009-11-29 12:10:26 |
<sami> | so have you tried building model for the currency data? :-) | 2009-11-29 12:10:26 |
| yes :-) | 2009-11-29 12:10:30 |
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<Shelwien> | not yet, but i did something fairly similar before | 2009-11-29 12:11:02 |
| i mean my model for calgary/geo data | 2009-11-29 12:11:23 |
| the same approach should be applicable | 2009-11-29 12:11:38 |
<chornobl> | talking about lena - i'd like to see it raw rgb or tga, but not bmp | 2009-11-29 12:11:50 |
<Shelwien> | and all the other stuff is a matter of context choice etc | 2009-11-29 12:11:51 |
<sami> | right but that doesn't count as similar for me, stock market data is special | 2009-11-29 12:11:55 |
<Shelwien> | i know | 2009-11-29 12:12:14 |
| they have some "resonance" effects from traders trying to follow some "strategy" | 2009-11-29 12:12:46 |
<sami> | right | 2009-11-29 12:13:00 |
<Shelwien> | but still that's not the problem really imho | 2009-11-29 12:13:24 |
<sami> | and technical analysis, I don't know how much volume that makes, but if there is enough volume, one can certainly model that stragegy easily | 2009-11-29 12:13:45 |
<Shelwien> | there're issues with other things | 2009-11-29 12:13:58 |
| like, prediction model is one thing | 2009-11-29 12:14:10 |
| and profit model is a completely different thing | 2009-11-29 12:14:17 |
<sami> | well, not completely | 2009-11-29 12:14:35 |
<Shelwien> | i mean, first you get probability distributions for numbers | 2009-11-29 12:15:19 |
| and then you have to minimize the profit likelihoods | 2009-11-29 12:15:43 |
| which is a damned bruteforce task basically | 2009-11-29 12:16:03 |
| so i'd better write a jpeg recompressor first | 2009-11-29 12:16:21 |
<sami> | :-) | 2009-11-29 12:16:31 |
<Shelwien> | (there's some similarity) | 2009-11-29 12:16:32 |
| also i recently found (with bit_guess) that precision of practical models is not as good as i expected | 2009-11-29 12:17:54 |
| ideally there should be no difference | 2009-11-29 12:18:25 |
| whether i optimize by entropy | 2009-11-29 12:18:35 |
| or by some specific "profit" metric | 2009-11-29 12:18:47 |
| (number of guessed bits in bit_guess) | 2009-11-29 12:18:55 |
| but due to imprecise calculations and lack of submodels to cover _all_ data | 2009-11-29 12:20:01 |
| i found that there's a significant difference in results | 2009-11-29 12:20:19 |
| depending on optimization metric | 2009-11-29 12:20:25 |
| well, that doesn't really break my idea to apply entropy models everywhere | 2009-11-29 12:21:05 |
| but it certainly requires some caution | 2009-11-29 12:21:22 |
| sami: btw, http://encode.dreamhosters.com/showpost.php?p=10164&postcount=16 | 2009-11-29 12:38:26 |
<sami> | I plowed through very quickly. something about p2p protocol that would cache random stuff to clients? I'm not very excited about that. private networks seems more reasonable | 2009-11-29 12:52:02 |
<Shelwien> | not that actually | 2009-11-29 12:52:19 |
| but anchored hashes ;) | 2009-11-29 12:52:26 |
| +recompression | 2009-11-29 12:52:49 |
<sami> | p2p to util anchored hashes to search everywhere? ok, but I'm not sure would I like the p2p program to churn the entire hd to build hashes from everything. if user limits it to certain files there will not be much material. nevertheless the idea makes sense basically | 2009-11-29 13:03:59 |
<Shelwien> | of course nobody in their right mind would allow p2p to scan whole drive | 2009-11-29 13:05:26 |
| some trojans install p2p in such a way though | 2009-11-29 13:05:42 |
| but its still could be very useful, especially along with recompression | 2009-11-29 13:06:17 |
<sami> | right, but I was pointing out that the user will limit it to just couple of files in her download folder | 2009-11-29 13:06:27 |
<Shelwien> | that's still better than nothing | 2009-11-29 13:06:41 |
| stuff frequently happens with torrents etc | 2009-11-29 13:06:55 |
| like people reposting slightly modified versions of stuff etc | 2009-11-29 13:07:11 |
| and hashing schemes used in all current p2p | 2009-11-29 13:07:38 |
| can't really handle that | 2009-11-29 13:07:54 |
| in fact, they don't even see when a block hash matches in two files downloaded at once | 2009-11-29 13:08:53 |
<sami> | to my understanding people post torrents that are already posted with perhaps some couple of spam files added. we don't need better hashing to fix this | 2009-11-29 13:09:06 |
| we need reasonable indexing services that solve this | 2009-11-29 13:09:27 |
<Shelwien> | we need anchored hashing to fix that, there's no other way | 2009-11-29 13:09:38 |
| the current scheme with fixed block hashes just doesn't allow to track moved content | 2009-11-29 13:10:16 |
| and even adding a comment to zip archive might result in a completely different torrent file | 2009-11-29 13:11:05 |
<sami> | yes I know, but I guess movies and music are really that is being the thing in p2p. id3 tags not considered, there isn't much that is changing the file signature | 2009-11-29 13:12:55 |
<Shelwien> | yeah, and that's very important for movies | 2009-11-29 13:13:54 |
<sami> | as said I think your idea makes sense, but I'm just saying in reality it will not get utilized much | 2009-11-29 13:14:02 |
<Shelwien> | there're lots of video files | 2009-11-29 13:14:10 |
| remuxed into a different format (avi->mkv etc) | 2009-11-29 13:14:21 |
| and/or with added subtitles etc | 2009-11-29 13:14:29 |
| or audio tracks | 2009-11-29 13:14:32 |
| anyway, lots of matching, but interleaved, data inside | 2009-11-29 13:14:49 |
<sami> | subtitles are usually separate files, they change torrent signature but not the file signature, this is why I would like the problem to be fixed with indexing service | 2009-11-29 13:15:20 |
<chornobl> | most annoying is that even name change makes torrent differs | 2009-11-29 13:15:48 |
<Shelwien> | well, that depends on genre maybe | 2009-11-29 13:16:12 |
<sami> | torrent is in many ways flawed, but it could be fixed | 2009-11-29 13:16:17 |
<Shelwien> | i encounter many rips in mkv with embedded subs/fonts | 2009-11-29 13:16:54 |
| and also some people frequently post various v2 etc | 2009-11-29 13:17:16 |
<sami> | movies should not even contain multiple audio tracks | 2009-11-29 13:17:17 |
<Shelwien> | err... why? | 2009-11-29 13:17:32 |
| that happens frequently too | 2009-11-29 13:17:50 |
<sami> | perhaps to some pixar animations for kids but basically I just don't understand why dubs are still used when people are literate | 2009-11-29 13:18:24 |
<Shelwien> | well, i don't either | 2009-11-29 13:18:47 |
| but there're bilingual US dvds | 2009-11-29 13:19:03 |
| and corresponding rips | 2009-11-29 13:19:10 |
| and also, don't forget about warez ;) | 2009-11-29 13:19:32 |
<sami> | I know it's common in some european countries, perhaps in russia too? US is a special case, they make the entire movie again with their own actors speaking in fake accent, that's even more bizarre than dubbing with 2 bad actors | 2009-11-29 13:19:44 |
<Shelwien> | and imagine just number of different windows releases | 2009-11-29 13:20:06 |
| all with mostly the same content inside | 2009-11-29 13:20:14 |
| ;) | 2009-11-29 13:20:38 |
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*** FuSiyuan has joined the channel | 2009-11-29 13:51:14 |
| hi FuSiyuan | 2009-11-29 13:51:56 |
<FuSiyuan> | Hi! Shelwien | 2009-11-29 13:53:09 |
<Shelwien> | if you don't talk, i usually won't notice even if i'm around ;) | 2009-11-29 13:54:11 |
<FuSiyuan> | I'm happy to share you a good message of mine that I got a job :) | 2009-11-29 13:54:38 |
| Around days. | 2009-11-29 13:54:55 |
<Shelwien> | cool | 2009-11-29 13:54:59 |
| so you won't have any time anymore? ;) | 2009-11-29 13:55:09 |
<FuSiyuan> | Yes for these days. Because I must try my best to adapt the company environment. I'm such a novice and have much to learn | 2009-11-29 13:56:36 |
| I got it in Campus Recruiting so I gave up applying abroad | 2009-11-29 13:57:18 |
| But I'm sure I won't leave forever | 2009-11-29 13:58:43 |
<Shelwien> | and what's the job? | 2009-11-29 13:58:53 |
<FuSiyuan> | Do you know Xunlei? or Thunder ? | 2009-11-29 13:59:05 |
<Shelwien> | no | 2009-11-29 13:59:14 |
<FuSiyuan> | A software used for download | 2009-11-29 13:59:26 |
<Shelwien> | plain http/ftp file downloader? | 2009-11-29 13:59:47 |
<FuSiyuan> | More than that. | 2009-11-29 14:00:03 |
<Shelwien> | http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://cap-cap.ru/?page=news/index.html&langpair=ru%7Cen&hl=en&newwindow=1&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools ? | 2009-11-29 14:00:19 |
<FuSiyuan> | Combined with P2P ,like BT/eMule | 2009-11-29 14:00:52 |
<Shelwien> | ah, ok | 2009-11-29 14:01:13 |
| and what you can write for these? new protocols? | 2009-11-29 14:01:56 |
<FuSiyuan> | However, I'm not in the team. The company is also concerning on online video. I'm going to work about this. | 2009-11-29 14:02:47 |
<Shelwien> | %) | 2009-11-29 14:03:00 |
| youtube etc ripping? | 2009-11-29 14:03:19 |
<FuSiyuan> | Apache + MySQL C++ cgi these are the keywords~ | 2009-11-29 14:03:27 |
| Not completely the same. More about online movies | 2009-11-29 14:04:02 |
| Rmvb is most widely used in china. | 2009-11-29 14:04:22 |
<Shelwien> | yeah, i encounter it sometimes | 2009-11-29 14:04:33 |
<FuSiyuan> | People used to search and download movies in rmvb format. | 2009-11-29 14:04:52 |
| So it's much more convenient to watch the movie online. | 2009-11-29 14:05:32 |
<Shelwien> | well, to me its not convenient at all ;) | 2009-11-29 14:06:01 |
| but i understand what you mean ;) | 2009-11-29 14:06:11 |
<FuSiyuan> | :) What's your way to watch movies? | 2009-11-29 14:06:39 |
| I mean not in cinema. | 2009-11-29 14:06:51 |
<Shelwien> | i use mpc under winXP | 2009-11-29 14:07:25 |
| plays rmvb and whatnot with proper directshow filters | 2009-11-29 14:07:57 |
| even flash | 2009-11-29 14:08:07 |
<FuSiyuan> | Media Player Classic? | 2009-11-29 14:08:19 |
<Shelwien> | yeah | 2009-11-29 14:08:22 |
<FuSiyuan> | You should download the rmvb first, don't you | 2009-11-29 14:08:49 |
<Shelwien> | yeah, torrents | 2009-11-29 14:08:59 |
<FuSiyuan> | That's the difference. Torrents are only used by small group of people here. | 2009-11-29 14:09:56 |
<Shelwien> | huh... | 2009-11-29 14:10:46 |
| http://isohunt.com/ | 2009-11-29 14:11:10 |
<FuSiyuan> | To guarantee millions of people watch the movies fluently online is a challenge work. | 2009-11-29 14:11:11 |
<Shelwien> | sure | 2009-11-29 14:11:28 |
| i actually have to maintain some audio caster solution | 2009-11-29 14:11:58 |
| for our codec | 2009-11-29 14:12:09 |
| i'd say for millions of people apache+cgi (which i use too) won't be enough | 2009-11-29 14:12:33 |
<FuSiyuan> | what's audio caster? about SoundSlimmer? | 2009-11-29 14:12:44 |
<Shelwien> | no | 2009-11-29 14:12:49 |
| like internet radio etc | 2009-11-29 14:13:06 |
<FuSiyuan> | oh | 2009-11-29 14:13:16 |
<Shelwien> | basically the same thing like yours, but no video (yet?) | 2009-11-29 14:13:25 |
<FuSiyuan> | I'm sure very few people in China are interested in online audio ;) | 2009-11-29 14:14:03 |
| radio | 2009-11-29 14:14:09 |
<Shelwien> | huh... actually our current investors are chinese | 2009-11-29 14:14:56 |
<FuSiyuan> | ,,,,,, | 2009-11-29 14:15:10 |
<Shelwien> | not like i care though | 2009-11-29 14:15:12 |
| but why not | 2009-11-29 14:16:26 |
| there's itunes etc | 2009-11-29 14:16:34 |
<FuSiyuan> | why not about what> | 2009-11-29 14:16:54 |
<Shelwien> | ? | 2009-11-29 14:17:07 |
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*** FuSiyuan has joined the channel | 2009-11-29 14:24:30 |
<FuSiyuan> | I'm sorry. The net is too unstable in hotel | 2009-11-29 14:25:29 |
<Shelwien> | %) | 2009-11-29 14:25:39 |
| did you see that btw? http://encode.dreamhosters.com/showpost.php?p=10164&postcount=16 | 2009-11-29 14:27:13 |
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| ... | 2009-11-29 15:09:48 |
<schnaader> | hi @ all | 2009-11-29 15:10:47 |
<Shelwien> | hi | 2009-11-29 15:10:52 |
<sami> | hi | 2009-11-29 15:11:36 |
<Shelwien> | schnaader: what do you think about adding recompression to p2p? | 2009-11-29 15:11:53 |
<schnaader> | Hehe, actually I've got several plans for this :) | 2009-11-29 15:12:10 |
<Shelwien> | like what? | 2009-11-29 15:13:20 |
<schnaader> | The first thing I want to do if the next Precomp version is out (and I managed to release a Linux version), is to add Precomp-optimized (and only legal, of course) torrents to my site so for example those Linux distros are only 300-500 MB to download instead of 700 MB. That's only a basic thing and not really "adding recompression to P2P", but it's a nice start. | 2009-11-29 15:14:23 |
<Shelwien> | sure | 2009-11-29 15:15:34 |
<schnaader> | Next, I'm thinking about a Precomp Server/Client version. As a client, you could add URLs (perhaps this could also be a Firefox extension for more comfort) that would be send to the server(s) which send you the precompressed+compressed version. If several servers are available, or every Client has server abilities, this quickly gets P2P-like. | 2009-11-29 15:15:55 |
<Shelwien> | but i talked about something more general, like ability to download parts for winxp_sp3.iso from a user who shares winxp_sp2.rar | 2009-11-29 15:16:25 |
<schnaader> | Yeah, I've seen this in your post, this would be the last part of such a chain. | 2009-11-29 15:17:45 |
<Shelwien> | well, otherwise, it sounds more like filehosting | 2009-11-29 15:18:08 |
<schnaader> | Yes, the other things are basically advanced mirroring. OTOH, P2P also is some advanced filehosting technique ;) | 2009-11-29 15:18:48 |
<Shelwien> | yeah, i've even seen some chinese filehosting site | 2009-11-29 15:19:11 |
| where you can download links from their site via http for money | 2009-11-29 15:19:33 |
| or by p2p with their client for free | 2009-11-29 15:19:43 |
| anyway, its surprising that there're no popular p2p software with good built-in compression | 2009-11-29 15:21:01 |
<schnaader> | But I see your point, the problem with BitTorrent at the moment is that it doesn't check if someone has some of the parts for a download available in another form. It's understandable as without recompression or better (dynamic block) hash ways it won't find much matches. | 2009-11-29 15:21:04 |
| And it lacks built-in compression, yes. | 2009-11-29 15:21:30 |
<Shelwien> | well, it could find a lot of matches even without recompression, actually | 2009-11-29 15:21:43 |
| "coincidentally", the fma-diff thing in topic here | 2009-11-29 15:23:23 |
| implements a hashing algorithm required for such flexible match finding | 2009-11-29 15:23:52 |
<schnaader> | So, how does it basically work and what are its limitations? | 2009-11-29 15:26:28 |
<Shelwien> | no real limitations that i'm aware of | 2009-11-29 15:27:22 |
<schnaader> | I mean it won't find a byte of length X if X gets small enough, will it? Anyway, no need to find 1 byte matches :P | 2009-11-29 15:27:43 |
| Replace "byte of length" with "byte match of length" :) | 2009-11-29 15:28:12 |
<Shelwien> | well, it uses 64bit hashes atm | 2009-11-29 15:28:22 |
| and overall 10-byte fragment records | 2009-11-29 15:28:36 |
| so no sense to set it to allow fragments shorter than 10 bytes, i guess ;) | 2009-11-29 15:28:55 |
| as to idea, i call it "anchored hashing" | 2009-11-29 15:29:12 |
| instead of fixed blocks, fragments are split by content | 2009-11-29 15:29:50 |
| it could be lines for text, or "." | 2009-11-29 15:31:33 |
| and it can be something like rolling_hash<limit for unknown data | 2009-11-29 15:32:17 |
| also i have min and max fragment size limits | 2009-11-29 15:32:41 |
<schnaader> | Hmm.. I think I slowly get the idea. An request start could start at max fragment size and continue with a binary search until the biggest match is found. | 2009-11-29 15:33:14 |
<Shelwien> | and the important addition, which i borrowed from MS backup service | 2009-11-29 15:33:42 |
| is secondary hashing | 2009-11-29 15:33:49 |
| meaning, that you can use anchored hashing with a relatively small avg fragment size (like 100 bytes) | 2009-11-29 15:34:28 |
| and then hash the hashtable | 2009-11-29 15:34:45 |
| !grep /fma | 2009-11-29 15:35:28 |
<schnaader> | How is hashing the hashtable different than hashing all the 100 bytes blocks? | 2009-11-29 15:35:35 |
<chornobl> | it it crazy? | 2009-11-29 15:35:58 |
<schnaader> | Hmm.. complogger should perhaps first grep, collect and post afterwards :) | 2009-11-29 15:36:07 |
<Shelwien> | so it does | 2009-11-29 15:36:18 |
| it only posts a limited number of matches | 2009-11-29 15:36:38 |
<schnaader> | OK, then IRC is just too slow as I could post between it :) | 2009-11-29 15:36:42 |
<Shelwien> | and a link with all | 2009-11-29 15:36:43 |
| that's an anti-spam feature | 2009-11-29 15:37:04 |
* Shelwien has to fix the url in the script | 2009-11-29 15:37:37 |
<schnaader> | Ah, I see. | 2009-11-29 15:37:37 |
<Shelwien> | and as to hashing the hashtable | 2009-11-29 15:38:03 |
| say, you have two files with mostly the same content | 2009-11-29 15:38:31 |
<schnaader> | And looking at the 6 last matches, it should perhaps not log/grep the topic :) | 2009-11-29 15:38:37 |
<Shelwien> | thus, fragment split points would be the same | 2009-11-29 15:38:56 |
| and fragment hashes | 2009-11-29 15:39:00 |
<schnaader> | Yeah, like two MP3 files for example (damn those ID3 header differences :) | 2009-11-29 15:39:00 |
<Shelwien> | so parts of two hashtables would be the same too | 2009-11-29 15:39:33 |
| but hashtable with avgmatch 100 would use 10% of file size | 2009-11-29 15:40:09 |
<schnaader> | Ah, so we don't check the matches between the files, but between the hashtables heavily reducing the traffic, I see! | 2009-11-29 15:40:26 |
<Shelwien> | yeah | 2009-11-29 15:40:33 |
| so the secondary hashtably would reduce it 10x more etc | 2009-11-29 15:40:50 |
| (MS doesn't limit the number of iterations ;) | 2009-11-29 15:41:07 |
| but then | 2009-11-29 15:41:25 |
| you'd be able for example to download a patch for the primary hash of file1 | 2009-11-29 15:42:04 |
| and thus acquire primary hash of remote file2 | 2009-11-29 15:42:18 |
| and it would be still possible to find a 100-byte fragment anywhere | 2009-11-29 15:42:55 |
<schnaader> | Very good idea - so, where can I get the patch for utorrent? :P :P | 2009-11-29 15:43:19 |
<Shelwien> | though, i guess, for p2p it could be set higher | 2009-11-29 15:43:29 |
| i'm using ~200 for my backup | 2009-11-29 15:43:35 |
| i don't think its compatible with torrent protocol really | 2009-11-29 15:44:02 |
<schnaader> | Yes, I think something like 512 byte would be good, dependings on the specific packet overhead and such things. | 2009-11-29 15:44:05 |
<Shelwien> | not really, as you can't have equal-sized fragments | 2009-11-29 15:44:28 |
| sizes would be all different | 2009-11-29 15:44:34 |
| or, more like, its better when they're all different | 2009-11-29 15:44:52 |
| (because otherwise it won't be content-specific) | 2009-11-29 15:45:45 |
| ...anyway, i'm working on a remote backup engine based on this idea | 2009-11-29 15:46:47 |
| which is not quite far from p2p as well | 2009-11-29 15:47:01 |
<schnaader> | This is another good idea - you can see how it all works out with it and then predict how the P2P thing would work and which problems could be there. | 2009-11-29 15:47:43 |
<Shelwien> | i don't really see any problems beside implementation complexity | 2009-11-29 15:48:24 |
<schnaader> | Looking for matches would be a broadcast, wouldn't it? Because if you send requests to every connected client, this could get some serious overhead. | 2009-11-29 15:48:41 |
<Shelwien> | not really | 2009-11-29 15:48:52 |
| there're completely distributed p2p networks already (including DHT in edonkey and torrents) | 2009-11-29 15:49:17 |
| and they have search | 2009-11-29 15:49:31 |
<schnaader> | OTOH, final hashtables will be relatively small and you won't get much traffic until you really get close to a match. | 2009-11-29 15:49:48 |
<Shelwien> | for example, it can be done hierarchically | 2009-11-29 15:49:49 |
| yeah, also you don't really need to download a larger hashtable if you don't see matches | 2009-11-29 15:50:18 |
| well, one drawback is amount of hash etc processing and memory usage | 2009-11-29 15:51:14 |
| but we have enough now, i think | 2009-11-29 15:51:21 |
<schnaader> | Yes, I think so too, I have to convert all those MP3s to OGGs to keep the CPU from being idle all the time ;) | 2009-11-29 15:52:36 |
<Shelwien> | huh... i can give you some password hashes to crack ;) | 2009-11-29 15:53:28 |
| however, I guess, I'd have to implement a significantly different version of anchored hashing for 2D data | 2009-11-29 15:54:08 |
<schnaader> | :) | 2009-11-29 15:54:08 |
<Shelwien> | like images/video etc | 2009-11-29 15:54:19 |
| audio is not straightforward too, but it only requires some filtering to detect matches | 2009-11-29 15:55:05 |
<schnaader> | There could be more things for this, f.e. you could create some hashes that generate the same/a similar value if the image is mirrored or scaled. | 2009-11-29 15:55:05 |
<Shelwien> | yeah, i implied that | 2009-11-29 15:55:31 |
<schnaader> | Ah, and you don't even need recompression for it, just a 7-Zip like decompression would help a lot already. | 2009-11-29 15:56:18 |
<Shelwien> | not quite | 2009-11-29 15:56:39 |
| don't forget that i'd have to reconstruct the file which I'm downloading | 2009-11-29 15:56:54 |
<schnaader> | Because in most cases you don't want to (remote test.rar -> local test.zip, but remote test.rar -> local part_of_test_rar.mp3) | 2009-11-29 15:57:24 |
<Shelwien> | without that I may be able to even download all the data | 2009-11-29 15:57:25 |
| but starting a download of an archive an getting unpacked data instead (with some stuff missing maybe, like comments) | 2009-11-29 15:58:07 |
| isn't quite good | 2009-11-29 15:58:14 |
| and btw, recompression of anything (not like you do though) is not really a problem | 2009-11-29 15:59:03 |
| we just need to store additional information which would allow to reconstruct the original stream | 2009-11-29 15:59:49 |
| which is somewhat more redundant than bruteforcing the parameters of specific algorithm implementation, like you do | 2009-11-29 16:00:40 |
| and also slower in decoding | 2009-11-29 16:00:47 |
| but much more universal | 2009-11-29 16:00:56 |
<schnaader> | Could you give an example here? It seems I can't really follow you there. | 2009-11-29 16:01:10 |
<Shelwien> | well, say, we have a deflate stream, which decodes to some data | 2009-11-29 16:02:43 |
| there're some specific match structure in the unpacked data | 2009-11-29 16:03:21 |
| like, there might be a choice of a few different matches to encode at some points | 2009-11-29 16:03:55 |
| so, that's additional information which is present in the deflate stream | 2009-11-29 16:04:18 |
| but not in the unpacked data | 2009-11-29 16:04:23 |
| but even if we only know the stream format (deflate), and not the specific compression algorithm | 2009-11-29 16:05:26 |
| we would still be able to losslessly recompress it like i described above | 2009-11-29 16:05:55 |
| and produce unpacked data and info block for recompression on output | 2009-11-29 16:06:10 |
| also, that info block won't likely take too much, as even with an unknown algorithm a context model would compress it good enough | 2009-11-29 16:07:01 |
| and ideally you can even implement submodels which would predict that info based on compression strategy of specific deflate implementations | 2009-11-29 16:07:52 |
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<schnaader> | I think I get it now - this would really be useful, yes. | 2009-11-29 16:08:01 |
<Shelwien> | well, thats how soundslimmer works | 2009-11-29 16:08:18 |
| for example, there're 4-bit huffman table selectors in each mp3 frame | 2009-11-29 16:08:43 |
| but i find an optimal table for the actual DCT data | 2009-11-29 16:09:17 |
| and encode a flag predicted==stored | 2009-11-29 16:09:39 |
| which is efficient enough with arithmetic coding even if i always guess right | 2009-11-29 16:10:08 |
| the main problem in deflate case, though | 2009-11-29 16:10:24 |
| is that match searching would be requited in decoding stage (reconstruction of original file) too | 2009-11-29 16:11:14 |
| *required | 2009-11-29 16:11:20 |
| because it would be providing these "guesses" for the context model | 2009-11-29 16:12:00 |
| but instead, its universal | 2009-11-29 16:12:17 |
| ..and fortunately, deflate compression is not very time-consuming anyway | 2009-11-29 16:13:30 |
<schnaader> | Not if you do it only once ;) | 2009-11-29 16:13:44 |
| Nice thoughts. Have you got some results yet (compared size of a backup with this and without)? | 2009-11-29 16:14:39 |
<Shelwien> | well, i'd have to implement some deflate recompression for my backup engine sometime | 2009-11-29 16:14:56 |
| so will see | 2009-11-29 16:15:05 |
<schnaader> | Although in a backup you won't of course get to see its full potential. | 2009-11-29 16:15:32 |
<Shelwien> | not yet, alas, i'm slow ;) | 2009-11-29 16:15:39 |
| well, this backup is surprisingly very similar to archiver | 2009-11-29 16:16:07 |
<schnaader> | It's not that frequent having slightyly different versions of your data spread all over your HD :) | 2009-11-29 16:16:11 |
| Slightyly... how cute :D | 2009-11-29 16:16:41 |
<Shelwien> | basically it _is_ an archiver split into two parts for reading and writing | 2009-11-29 16:17:33 |
<schnaader> | Well, sometimes one ain't too slow, but just have too much ideas so one doesn't know which one to implement first - at least that's the difficulty with Precomp at the moment :) | 2009-11-29 16:19:47 |
<Shelwien> | well, i'm certainly too slow | 2009-11-29 16:20:22 |
<schnaader> | OK, no more excuses for you, then ;) | 2009-11-29 16:20:59 |
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| Wow, it's getting crowded here - I can't understand my own word XD | 2009-11-29 16:21:43 |
<Shelwien> | forum link + no new posts ;) | 2009-11-29 16:22:09 |
<schnaader> | Actually, there was a post about Google Wave which could get an evil enemy to the IRC channel :) | 2009-11-29 16:22:46 |
<Shelwien> | no way i'd use something without easily accessible logs ;) | 2009-11-29 16:23:50 |
<schnaader> | Same for me, too, but tell this the Google kids :P | 2009-11-29 16:24:26 |
<Shelwien> | its a conspiracy. they'd magically turn our computers into terminals, and we'd have no other choice then ;) | 2009-11-29 16:25:46 |
<schnaader> | Hm.. just thinking if a (really complicated) version of that P2P technique could reconstruct MP3s based on another MP3 with a different (or best a higher) bitrate - I always hate to download CBR 320kbps and converting to VBR 128) - but I guess this wouldn't be easy to achieve lossless... | 2009-11-29 16:27:18 |
<Shelwien> | i have a plan for jpeg recompression which would allow similar stuff | 2009-11-29 16:28:08 |
| (finding similar image fragments etc) | 2009-11-29 16:28:30 |
| but its likely too computationally-heavy to do for mp3 | 2009-11-29 16:28:55 |
| i mean, we need to decode PCM, and use CM to compress the DCT coefs using PCM as context | 2009-11-29 16:29:39 |
| ...guess that's exactly the stuff to use GPUs for | 2009-11-29 16:30:46 |
<schnaader> | In this case, you'd go better with a recode server that provides lower bitrate version, yes. | 2009-11-29 16:30:46 |
| The only problem I see is that people seem to care less and less about compression - newest FreeBSD version f.e. (ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/ISO-IMAGES/8.0/) provides 2 downloads (bootonly and livefs) which can get compressed down to 17 MB (from 43) and 84 MB (from 250) even using THOR... and gZip http compression doesn't seem to help here :( | 2009-11-29 16:34:05 |
| But then again, the bigger versions are more efficient :) | 2009-11-29 16:35:14 |
<Shelwien> | i've seen a local phone database on a DVD | 2009-11-29 16:36:25 |
| there were ~15M of actual data (compressed) | 2009-11-29 16:36:53 |
| and a 4G data.bin file with zeroes | 2009-11-29 16:37:19 |
| but yeah | 2009-11-29 16:38:37 |
| once upon a time i used my avipack to download videos reduced by 5-20% | 2009-11-29 16:39:04 |
| but it became too bothersome already when I've got 512kbit | 2009-11-29 16:39:30 |
<schnaader> | Which actually isn't a bad thing ;) And there are still ways to fill even 1 PB and wanting better compression so it's only 750 TB :) | 2009-11-29 16:40:38 |
<Shelwien> | yeah, with rainbow tables and digits of Pi | 2009-11-29 16:41:23 |
<schnaader> | And of course having P2P with 3 MB/s instead of 1 MB/s because of compression would be nice, too ;) | 2009-11-29 16:41:41 |
<Shelwien> | imho lack of seeders is much more important there | 2009-11-29 16:42:09 |
<schnaader> | Well, not for most legal stuff ;) But I know what you mean, of course. | 2009-11-29 16:42:53 |
<Shelwien> | zip and https for legal stuff | 2009-11-29 16:44:00 |
| by a random association here's something BWT-related: http://shelwien.googlepages.com/bzip-ipp1.png | 2009-11-29 16:49:12 |
<schnaader> | 14 s is REALLY slow - how big is test.html? | 2009-11-29 16:51:32 |
<Shelwien> | 1-2M | 2009-11-29 16:51:47 |
| bit its repeatable | 2009-11-29 16:51:59 |
| their previous version took 8s | 2009-11-29 16:52:20 |
<schnaader> | Yeah, guessed so as you stated "redundant files" | 2009-11-29 16:52:22 |
<Shelwien> | and i filed that issue | 2009-11-29 16:52:27 |
| and then they recently asked to check the new release | 2009-11-29 16:52:45 |
| which they supposedly rewritten from scratch or something | 2009-11-29 16:52:58 |
| guess it really helped ;) | 2009-11-29 16:53:04 |
| also notice "total days open" ;) | 2009-11-29 16:54:30 |
<schnaader> | Yes, just saw that submit was last year :) | 2009-11-29 16:55:03 |
| So it seems they don't really care about their CPU cycles there ;) | 2009-11-29 16:55:31 |
<Shelwien> | well, its a design error, so they probably just can't fix it | 2009-11-29 16:56:00 |
<sami> | Shelwien what is that about? bzip2 written from screatch? is it open source and can you give me a link to it? | 2009-11-29 16:56:49 |
| scratch | 2009-11-29 16:56:56 |
<Shelwien> | Intel has a product called "Intel Performance Primitives" | 2009-11-29 16:57:23 |
| and you can look at this: http://shelwien.googlepages.com/bzip-ipp1.png | 2009-11-29 16:58:11 |
| i mean, this: http://shelwien.googlepages.com/bzip2ipp_v0.rar | 2009-11-29 16:58:27 |
| (though its in the image too ;) | 2009-11-29 16:58:36 |
| they have it available for download (in IPP samples) | 2009-11-29 16:58:57 |
| but i'd have to click too much links for that ;) | 2009-11-29 16:59:15 |
| well, this http://registrationcenter.intel.com/irc_nas/1621/w_ipp-samples_p_6.1.2.051.zip | 2009-11-29 17:01:15 |
<schnaader> | Is this just a test for their product, or are they trying to build a faster implementation of bZip2? | 2009-11-29 17:01:30 |
<Shelwien> | but it probably requires whole IPP to compile | 2009-11-29 17:01:34 |
| well, they think that it _is_ a faster implementation | 2009-11-29 17:02:00 |
| they have zlib version too btw | 2009-11-29 17:02:05 |
| and it is actually a few times faster for now so redundant files | 2009-11-29 17:02:30 |
<schnaader> | As you found those bugs, seems more like some trade-off for "usual files" :) | 2009-11-29 17:02:35 |
<Shelwien> | well, my BWTmix takes like a minute for that file | 2009-11-29 17:03:07 |
| so its not only their problem ;) | 2009-11-29 17:03:11 |
<schnaader> | Yes, redundancy is evil because you'll get to check so many matches... Had this problem once with an early compressor of mine and a file filled with 0 bytes - of course that's a trivial case you can fix very quick | 2009-11-29 17:04:27 |
<sami> | ipp_bzlib.inc is not the full source, where is the sort function? | 2009-11-29 17:04:41 |
<Shelwien> | guess no source then... | 2009-11-29 17:05:13 |
<sami> | yea. the ippsBWTFwd_8u() function is missing | 2009-11-29 17:07:21 |
| I guess it's too embarrassing so they left it out | 2009-11-29 17:07:29 |
<Shelwien> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Performance_Primitives | 2009-11-29 17:09:49 |
<sami> | Shelwien if you are interested in bwt sort test files, see the gauntlet corpus by michael | 2009-11-29 17:12:12 |
<Shelwien> | hmm... maybe i would... | 2009-11-29 17:13:39 |
<sami> | http://www.michael-maniscalco.com/msufsort.htm | 2009-11-29 17:14:16 |
<Shelwien> | although usually I only mess with BWT because its postcoding doesn't require using hashes or anything for statistics | 2009-11-29 17:14:17 |
<sami> | you can download the files there individually. it appears there is no single large zip package | 2009-11-29 17:16:16 |
<Shelwien> | btw, considering that... I'd like to implement unary CM coder, probably as a BWT postcoder too | 2009-11-29 17:16:59 |
| well, similar to what PPMd does, for example | 2009-11-29 17:17:06 |
| but there's a problem... unary coding has a really bad worst case (255 bits per source byte) | 2009-11-29 17:17:50 |
<sami> | right | 2009-11-29 17:18:19 |
<Shelwien> | which is normally worked around by changing the symbol ranking according to circumstances | 2009-11-29 17:18:47 |
| but that only works right when simple frequencies are used, like in ppmd | 2009-11-29 17:19:25 |
| but if we'd have probabilities for symbols there | 2009-11-29 17:20:14 |
| it would require a division per rank change (and multiplications) | 2009-11-29 17:20:34 |
| and likely would introduce a noticeable imprecision too | 2009-11-29 17:21:01 |
| so its slow if we don't do any adaptive reordering | 2009-11-29 17:21:32 |
| and its slow if we do it for other reason | 2009-11-29 17:21:39 |
| and we can't compute and save a static ranking for all contexts | 2009-11-29 17:22:14 |
| so, any suggestions on how to solve that? ;) | 2009-11-29 17:22:35 |
<Krugz> | noob: transform and conquer all your audio into simple frequencies first? | 2009-11-29 17:23:49 |
| XD | 2009-11-29 17:23:50 |
<Shelwien> | Krugz: what are you talking about? | 2009-11-29 17:24:16 |
<Krugz> | a pointless suggestion :P | 2009-11-29 17:24:36 |
<Shelwien> | ... | 2009-11-29 17:25:10 |
| anyway, its been a long time since I encountered that problem | 2009-11-29 17:25:45 |
<Krugz> | you said you can't do whatever you're trying to do without it being simple frequencies, so break everything complex into simple frequencies? I was just playing around, I don't know anything :P | 2009-11-29 17:25:46 |
<schnaader> | Have to go now - was a nice chat again, will be here more often in future, so see ya all | 2009-11-29 17:26:41 |
<Shelwien> | good luck ;) | 2009-11-29 17:26:50 |
<sami> | Shelwien, I don't fully follow. unary CM must be implemented with SR, such that worst case average you encode 128 bits per byte | 2009-11-29 17:27:22 |
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<Shelwien> | if its true unary, it can't be not 255 bits per byte ;) | 2009-11-29 17:28:01 |
| but even its some composite unary/binary, there's still the same question about probability recomputing | 2009-11-29 17:28:31 |
| well, another alternative is keeping direct stats and only use unary coding | 2009-11-29 17:29:20 |
| but that's unreasonably slow too | 2009-11-29 17:29:27 |
| the question is how to dynamically change the contextual symbol ranking | 2009-11-29 17:30:05 |
| along with contextual symbol statistics | 2009-11-29 17:30:15 |
<sami> | there are such problems with speed with unary cm that you cannot get around with, at least I don't see it | 2009-11-29 17:30:17 |
<Shelwien> | ppmd is an example of such unary | 2009-11-29 17:30:32 |
| it uses MTF/frequency sort ranking | 2009-11-29 17:31:05 |
<sami> | my ppm simply kept the symbols in MTF order per context. ppmd sorts by freq | 2009-11-29 17:31:29 |
<Shelwien> | only on rescale | 2009-11-29 17:31:40 |
| anyway, there was this Cyan guy in the forum | 2009-11-29 17:32:54 |
<sami> | I don't know about the recent version, but I have the picture that it checked the ordering per freq update (swapping it with the above rank) | 2009-11-29 17:33:09 |
<Shelwien> | and he posted a dummy bytewise rangecoder recently | 2009-11-29 17:33:12 |
| which works at >100Mb/s | 2009-11-29 17:33:32 |
| while bitwise fpaq0pv4B which is optimized, is only ~30Mb/s | 2009-11-29 17:34:03 |
<sami> | was that adaptive? and what was used as test data? | 2009-11-29 17:34:14 |
<Shelwien> | I used enwik9 | 2009-11-29 17:34:27 |
| and it was static | 2009-11-29 17:34:37 |
| but still | 2009-11-29 17:34:44 |
| http://encode.dreamhosters.com/showpost.php?p=9969&postcount=12 | 2009-11-29 17:35:33 |
| Krugz: Its a misunderstanding. I'm talking about statistical "frequencies" here, which is basically a weird term for plain symbol counts | 2009-11-29 17:37:43 |
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency | 2009-11-29 17:39:04 |
| "Frequency is the number of occurrences of a repeating event per unit time" | 2009-11-29 17:39:16 |
| and our "unit" is whole file here, i guess | 2009-11-29 17:39:52 |
<sami> | I can't say about static rc speeds since I haven't experimented much with those. I always huffman for all static stuff | 2009-11-29 17:40:04 |
<Shelwien> | well, he did huffman later too there | 2009-11-29 17:40:25 |
<sami> | although I have experimented with various pseudo adaptive rcs, but it's been a long time | 2009-11-29 17:41:02 |
<Shelwien> | anyway, a static bitwise rc won't be that fast | 2009-11-29 17:41:29 |
| at least, unless its some multiplication-free or something | 2009-11-29 17:41:50 |
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<LiLGh0st> | let's see what u guys are up to.. ^^ | 2009-11-29 19:00:28 |
<Shelwien> | we are not | 2009-11-29 19:00:52 |
<LiLGh0st> | heh | 2009-11-29 19:01:14 |
| Krugz lied to me then =/ | 2009-11-29 19:01:18 |
<Shelwien> | you can read the log though | 2009-11-29 19:01:22 |
<Krugz> | I did? | 2009-11-29 19:01:40 |
<LiLGh0st> | where be da log? | 2009-11-29 19:01:55 |
<Shelwien> | http://ps16893.dreamhost.com/cgi-system/chantail.cgi?100 | 2009-11-29 19:02:20 |
| http://ps16893.dreamhost.com/log | 2009-11-29 19:02:29 |
<LiLGh0st> | ah | 2009-11-29 19:02:37 |
| thanks | 2009-11-29 19:02:37 |
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| ah, so you guys talk about file encoding here? | 2009-11-29 19:03:38 |
<Shelwien> | in a way | 2009-11-29 19:03:46 |
<LiLGh0st> | that's cool | 2009-11-29 19:03:49 |
<Shelwien> | data compression | 2009-11-29 19:03:52 |
<LiLGh0st> | hm... | 2009-11-29 19:04:03 |
<Shelwien> | http://encode.dreamhosters.com/ | 2009-11-29 19:04:07 |
<LiLGh0st> | all i need is tar for linux, and rar for windows ;) | 2009-11-29 19:04:33 |
<Krugz> | XD | 2009-11-29 19:04:41 |
<Shelwien> | http://compressionratings.com | 2009-11-29 19:06:09 |
<LiLGh0st> | damn lol | 2009-11-29 19:07:05 |
| they're not even ranked | 2009-11-29 19:07:08 |
| hm... i guess i should install nanozip on my servers then | 2009-11-29 19:08:11 |
<Shelwien> | maybe | 2009-11-29 19:08:32 |
<LiLGh0st> | do a comparison between video codecs ^^ | 2009-11-29 19:09:04 |
| since that'll be useful for me | 2009-11-29 19:09:08 |
| video codecs and avisynth filters | 2009-11-29 19:09:15 |
<Shelwien> | http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-4_avc_h264_2009_en.html | 2009-11-29 19:09:39 |
<Krugz> | I have to start packing, afk | 2009-11-29 19:11:48 |
<Shelwien> | Packing is compression too, in a way | 2009-11-29 19:13:19 |
| http://www.ctxmodel.net/rem.pl?-256 | 2009-11-29 19:13:21 |
<Krugz|afk> | lolol -.- | 2009-11-29 19:13:38 |
| wrong kind of packing | 2009-11-29 19:13:43 |
* Krugz|afk is packing bags :P | 2009-11-29 19:13:49 |
<LiLGh0st> | ah, thhe compression.ru one | 2009-11-29 19:13:57 |
| is kinda old | 2009-11-29 19:13:59 |
| since the new x264 | 2009-11-29 19:14:14 |
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<sami> | about lena format. I'm just going for bmp, I don't think headerless/raw will do any good, since tuning "universal compressors" to both 2d bitmap and (say) english text just doesn't make sense | 2009-11-29 19:14:16 |
<LiLGh0st> | has MB-Trees | 2009-11-29 19:14:18 |
<Shelwien> | why not tga or pgm? | 2009-11-29 19:14:44 |
| or was it ppm?.. | 2009-11-29 19:14:50 |
<sami> | pgm is ok | 2009-11-29 19:15:06 |
| or ppm whatever | 2009-11-29 19:15:13 |
| they are both just as simple. ppm/pgm would be simplier if there wouldn't be such vaguely defined header | 2009-11-29 19:15:55 |
<Shelwien> | tga header is very simple too | 2009-11-29 19:16:14 |
<sami> | bmp is easy since one has just a fixed struct that can be casted | 2009-11-29 19:16:15 |
<Shelwien> | tga too, i actually use it sometimes | 2009-11-29 19:16:40 |
| more compact than bmp too | 2009-11-29 19:16:53 |
<sami> | yes, I recall tga was simple but I don't right now recall how simple :-) | 2009-11-29 19:16:59 |
<Shelwien> | very | 2009-11-29 19:17:12 |
<sami> | ppm/pgm might have been my 1st choice but now I didn't happen to have lena in ppm :-) | 2009-11-29 19:17:51 |
<Shelwien> | you can convert it, that should be lossless anyway | 2009-11-29 19:18:20 |
| and i really doubt that original lena is in bmp | 2009-11-29 19:18:34 |
<chornobl> | vote for tga | 2009-11-29 19:19:20 |
<Shelwien> | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~chuck/lennapg/ | 2009-11-29 19:20:27 |
<sami> | currently the tests are running for: book1, obj2, geo, enwik6, zhwik6 | 2009-11-29 19:21:14 |
<LiLGh0st> | heh picture compression | 2009-11-29 19:21:23 |
<sami> | ok, I'm just going with ppm then | 2009-11-29 19:24:36 |
| perhaps I just add e.coli for dna since it's well known | 2009-11-29 19:26:51 |
<Shelwien> | yeah, i guess | 2009-11-29 19:27:08 |
<sami> | I'm thinking perhaps I'll cut the fp.log a bit if I'm to include that | 2009-11-29 19:27:20 |
<Shelwien> | there're special compressors for dna though | 2009-11-29 19:27:34 |
<sami> | I plan adding the ohs.doc and perhaps the hlp file | 2009-11-29 19:27:42 |
<Shelwien> | pdf? | 2009-11-29 19:28:42 |
| maybe precomp'ed? | 2009-11-29 19:28:55 |
<sami> | I like precomped better, but I'm not sure how big does that get then and if it's ok to just cut it | 2009-11-29 19:30:28 |
<Shelwien> | not especially big i think | 2009-11-29 19:31:13 |
<sami> | how about if I'd just cut them to 1mb, both log and pdf? | 2009-11-29 19:32:13 |
| precomped pdf I mean | 2009-11-29 19:32:22 |
<Shelwien> | pdf probably ok, but not log | 2009-11-29 19:32:32 |
<sami> | yeah, it's pretty redundant so large is ok. maybe 5mb? | 2009-11-29 19:32:57 |
<Shelwien> | yeah | 2009-11-29 19:33:03 |
<sami> | ok. what do you think about cutting the hlp and doc as well? | 2009-11-29 19:34:37 |
| well I'd need to check them more carefully as there might be different kind of segments | 2009-11-29 19:35:04 |
<Shelwien> | ok i think | 2009-11-29 19:36:03 |
| as to segments you can use seg_file btw | 2009-11-29 19:36:15 |
<sami> | yea, but I don't want to make them homogeneous | 2009-11-29 19:36:32 |
<Shelwien> | http://ctxmodel.net/files/PPMd/segfile_sh2.rar | 2009-11-29 19:36:45 |
<sami> | you mean segfile and then take samples of each segment and glue them together? | 2009-11-29 19:37:06 |
<Shelwien> | as you like | 2009-11-29 19:37:16 |
| maybe drop redundant segments etc | 2009-11-29 19:37:37 |
| or plaintext in the doc, even | 2009-11-29 19:37:57 |
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<sami> | I don't want to cut the text in the doc. perhaps I'm just not going to cut those files. perhaps acrord must be complete as well as it isn't homogeneous | 2009-11-29 19:39:15 |
<Shelwien> | %) | 2009-11-29 19:39:46 |
<sami> | it took over 3 hours to run book1 for all over 500 compressors (fast ones are run multiple times) | 2009-11-29 19:40:19 |
| not 500 compressors, but configurations | 2009-11-29 19:40:30 |
<Shelwien> | are you in a hurry? ;) | 2009-11-29 19:41:45 |
<sami> | I guess not :-) | 2009-11-29 19:42:21 |
| i used this http://download.wikimedia.org/zhwiki/20091129/zhwiki-20091129-pages-articles.xml.bz2 for zhwik | 2009-11-29 19:43:05 |
<Shelwien> | what's the size? | 2009-11-29 19:43:35 |
<sami> | 1mb | 2009-11-29 19:43:45 |
<Shelwien> | wonder if we should suggest Matt to add it to LTCB ;) | 2009-11-29 19:44:34 |
<sami> | I guess he wouldn't find it interesting as it would make "AI research" only more inconvenient | 2009-11-29 19:45:26 |
<Shelwien> | well, his UIQ benchmark isn't related to AI, right? | 2009-11-29 19:47:21 |
<sami> | right | 2009-11-29 19:47:34 |
<Shelwien> | though I doubt that he'd do it anyway, as he'd have to benchmark some compressors to get initial statistics for zhwiki | 2009-11-29 19:48:15 |
| and that'd be time-consuming | 2009-11-29 19:48:26 |
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| sorry, i'm out for today, bye | 2009-11-29 19:57:10 |
<sami> | bye | 2009-11-29 19:59:01 |
<Krugz> | bye | 2009-11-29 19:59:03 |
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<FuSiyuan> | Hi Shelwien~ I successfully connected this time | 2009-11-30 01:33:49 |
| I gonna learn about Linux then. It's work time now ;) | 2009-11-30 01:35:29 |
<Krugz> | learn about linux? where are you going to start? | 2009-11-30 01:36:25 |
<FuSiyuan> | especially about C++ under Linux | 2009-11-30 01:39:41 |
<Krugz> | hmm C++ in linux? weird I think :P | 2009-11-30 01:40:18 |
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<Guest9968193> | <Shelwien> and what you can write for these? new protocols? | 2009-11-30 06:15:43 |
| <FuSiyuan> However, I'm not in the team. The company is also concerning on online video. I'm going to work about this. | 2009-11-30 06:15:43 |
| <Shelwien> %) | 2009-11-30 06:15:43 |
| <Shelwien> youtube etc ripping? | 2009-11-30 06:15:43 |
| <FuSiyuan> Apache + MySQL C++ cgi these are the keywords~ | 2009-11-30 06:15:43 |
| <FuSiyuan> Not completely the same. More about online movies | 2009-11-30 06:15:44 |
| <FuSiyuan> Rmvb is most widely used in china. | 2009-11-30 06:15:46 |
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<Shelwien> | hi toffer | 2009-11-30 10:50:12 |
<toffer> | hi | 2009-11-30 11:01:25 |
<Shelwien> | ... | 2009-11-30 11:01:34 |
<toffer> | i was visiting my girlfriend at work this weekend | 2009-11-30 11:01:37 |
| noted that the channel was rather busy this time | 2009-11-30 11:01:47 |
<Shelwien> | well, i was trying to advertise it a little ;) | 2009-11-30 11:02:22 |
| not that anything interesting happened | 2009-11-30 11:02:41 |
| except that i suggested to Sami to use chinese wiki dump for testing ;) | 2009-11-30 11:02:57 |
| (zhwiki) | 2009-11-30 11:03:01 |
| !grep zhwiki | 2009-11-30 11:03:15 |
<toffer> | and why the chinese wiki? | 2009-11-30 11:05:29 |
<Shelwien> | because its not english? | 2009-11-30 11:05:39 |
| and also large enough and legal | 2009-11-30 11:05:59 |
| anyway | 2009-11-30 11:09:58 |
| i think i'm going to finally try implementing some new maths today | 2009-11-30 11:10:51 |
| an unary coding for BWT data | 2009-11-30 11:11:11 |
| with dynamic ranking | 2009-11-30 11:11:19 |
| and using doubles as the main variable type ;) | 2009-11-30 11:11:50 |
<toffer> | btw how much slower are such float implementations | 2009-11-30 11:26:30 |
<Shelwien> | significantly | 2009-11-30 11:26:57 |
| that's mainly because of integer conversions required for rc use | 2009-11-30 11:27:14 |
| and then because of larger memory use | 2009-11-30 11:27:28 |
| as float counters would use up at least 32 bits | 2009-11-30 11:27:41 |
| also, its relatively ok with SSE2 allowed | 2009-11-30 11:28:20 |
| but otherwise all the processing has to be done via old FPU-style instructions | 2009-11-30 11:28:50 |
| which are very limited | 2009-11-30 11:28:59 |
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| somehow, instead of unary code, i'd written a weird generalized version of MTF | 2009-11-30 16:48:06 |
| which allows to gain 3-4k on book1bwt comparing to normal one | 2009-11-30 16:48:23 |
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<schnaader> | hi @ all | 2009-11-30 17:01:41 |
<Shelwien> | hi | 2009-11-30 17:01:51 |
<schnaader> | Hi Shelwien, I think I found a minor flaw in your P2P concept I'd like to discuss about. | 2009-11-30 17:02:32 |
<Shelwien> | ? | 2009-11-30 17:02:41 |
<schnaader> | It's about hash collisions, with f.e. Torrents this is not that likely to happen because you had to intentionally change a block in the file to have the same hash. But theoratically, it would be possible to "poison" a file like that. | 2009-11-30 17:04:34 |
<Shelwien> | yeah, so? | 2009-11-30 17:05:32 |
| basically, we can use hash of any size for a fragment | 2009-11-30 17:06:08 |
<toffer> | hi again | 2009-11-30 17:06:31 |
<Shelwien> | in my implementation atm, for a collision to happen, a 64-bit crc has to match, and also fragment length | 2009-11-30 17:06:35 |
<toffer> | could you post a fragment of that mtf, if possible - i'd look at it than | 2009-11-30 17:06:52 |
| hi schnaader | 2009-11-30 17:07:00 |
| wow the channel really fills up | 2009-11-30 17:07:08 |
<schnaader> | hi toffer | 2009-11-30 17:07:09 |
| Yes, that's why I say the flaw is minor, actually it's very unlikely to happen, but it would at least be more likely than with actual implementations - although once in an Exabyte or so is still not a real problem :) | 2009-11-30 17:07:49 |
<Shelwien> | toffer: i can post whole coder if you want. but the idea is that symbol rank not always changed to 0, but to a function of distance to its last occurence | 2009-11-30 17:07:52 |
<toffer> | ok | 2009-11-30 17:08:08 |
| some plots would be interesting, too | 2009-11-30 17:08:15 |
<Shelwien> | schnaader: as i started to explain, i use crc32-based hash (as i managed to implement an incremental version of crc32) | 2009-11-30 17:08:53 |
| so its much easier to forge than, say, sha1 etc | 2009-11-30 17:09:19 |
<toffer> | i mean the mapping from distance to rank | 2009-11-30 17:10:08 |
<Shelwien> | rank=C*distance | 2009-11-30 17:10:20 |
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| C=0.2 or something atm | 2009-11-30 17:10:34 |
<toffer> | ok, that's simpler than i expected | 2009-11-30 17:10:38 |
| 3-4k is rather much for book1. | 2009-11-30 17:10:49 |
| what's the performance | 2009-11-30 17:11:09 |
| comperssion-wise, of course | 2009-11-30 17:11:18 |
<Shelwien> | to be specific, its 235858 for bwt+mtf+fpaq0pv4b | 2009-11-30 17:11:39 |
| and 229496 for that weird mtf | 2009-11-30 17:11:58 |
| or 224696 vs 221140 using mix_test coder | 2009-11-30 17:12:20 |
<toffer> | and the decomposition is really unary? | 2009-11-30 17:12:22 |
<Shelwien> | err... its just a bytewise transform, not really related yet | 2009-11-30 17:13:02 |
| though i was thinking about how to update the ranks in unary coder | 2009-11-30 17:13:18 |
<toffer> | so you replaced symbols by rank? | 2009-11-30 17:14:38 |
<Shelwien> | schnaader: as with my backup the collision problem is even more important, my idea for fixing it is to add some recovery sectors, like in RAID or what rar does | 2009-11-30 17:15:21 |
| toffer: http://ctxmodel.net/files/mix_test/gmtf_v0.rar | 2009-11-30 17:19:14 |
<toffer> | thanks | 2009-11-30 17:19:26 |
| i'll have alok | 2009-11-30 17:19:28 |
| lok | 2009-11-30 17:19:31 |
| look | 2009-11-30 17:19:34 |
<Shelwien> | there're normal mtf and that new one in "xxx.inc" | 2009-11-30 17:19:55 |
| also http://googlepages.com is being funny only for me or for all? | 2009-11-30 17:20:47 |
<schnaader> | Shelwien: Yes, thought about that, too. At least detection would be important, correction should be possible then. In P2P, you could actually build a hash collision "blacklist" after detection giving you a nice overview about possible collisions with the hash you use :) | 2009-11-30 17:23:51 |
<Shelwien> | obviously there'd be a whole file checksum too | 2009-11-30 17:24:19 |
| also, its kinda interesting how this idea is quite compatible especially with completely distributed p2p networks | 2009-11-30 17:28:45 |
| i mean, it would be very hard to maintain a full hash DB for petabytes of data | 2009-11-30 17:29:26 |
| but it should be still ok for a few TB max which any user would share | 2009-11-30 17:30:04 |
<schnaader> | Yes, the whole file checksum would be the obvious thing for detection, correction perhaps could involve checking hashes using a different hash algorithm or different blocksizes. | 2009-11-30 17:30:32 |
<Shelwien> | as i said, the recovery data can be calculated once, along with hashing | 2009-11-30 17:31:08 |
| do you know that block xor algorithm which is used everywhere? | 2009-11-30 17:31:24 |
<schnaader> | Yes, the RAID/RAR thing :) | 2009-11-30 17:31:44 |
| Soooo useful ;) | 2009-11-30 17:31:51 |
<Shelwien> | kinda slow though | 2009-11-30 17:32:00 |
<schnaader> | A 2D implementation could perhaps help with speed, too, but I'm not that sure about it. | 2009-11-30 17:32:35 |
<Shelwien> | sure, but its limited by the allowed amount of redundancy | 2009-11-30 17:34:09 |
<schnaader> | Damn, I've to go, a friend just phoned me and wants to meet... well, can't ignore real life :) | 2009-11-30 17:36:48 |
| so bye @ all - have a nice chat ;) | 2009-11-30 17:36:59 |
<Shelwien> | ;) | 2009-11-30 17:37:03 |
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| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coroutine | 2009-11-30 19:57:06 |
* Shelwien wants to have these in C++ | 2009-11-30 19:57:42 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-30 20:01:43 |
| I'll look at it later just for fun, heading back to my dorm room right now | 2009-11-30 20:01:59 |
| bbs | 2009-11-30 20:02:04 |
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| hmm co-routines | 2009-11-30 20:55:35 |
<Shelwien> | ... | 2009-11-30 20:55:47 |
<Krugz> | why do you need them? I mean, it sounds interesting but you can accomplish what you want with subroutines a little less efficiently? | 2009-11-30 20:56:03 |
<Shelwien> | no way | 2009-11-30 20:56:22 |
| its kinda like pipes in the shell | 2009-11-30 20:57:00 |
<Krugz> | ya I suppose that's true | 2009-11-30 20:57:36 |
| now that I think about it, there's probably a lot of problems that would benefit from this approach | 2009-11-30 20:57:52 |
| it's strange it's not in C++ | 2009-11-30 20:58:05 |
<Shelwien> | any complex project basically | 2009-11-30 20:58:08 |
| they say, its not it C/C++ because they keep local vars on stack | 2009-11-30 20:58:53 |
<Krugz> | ah | 2009-11-30 20:59:20 |
| but can't they use the FP to compensate? | 2009-11-30 20:59:39 |
<Shelwien> | and there was no universal way to implement it to work with all C++ elements | 2009-11-30 21:00:29 |
<Krugz> | eh that's too bad I suppose | 2009-11-30 21:01:01 |
| well a lot of things are being switched over to C# now anyways, right? | 2009-11-30 21:01:13 |
<Shelwien> | compression can't be implemented in C# | 2009-11-30 21:01:37 |
<Krugz> | really? Why's that? | 2009-11-30 21:01:59 |
<Shelwien> | nor java or python or other fashionable stuff | 2009-11-30 21:02:05 |
| the main problem is speed | 2009-11-30 21:02:33 |
<Krugz> | because they're OOP? | 2009-11-30 21:02:36 |
<Shelwien> | no | 2009-11-30 21:02:42 |
<Krugz> | so because of the VM? O.o; | 2009-11-30 21:02:49 |
<Shelwien> | yeah | 2009-11-30 21:02:53 |
| and dumb memory management etc | 2009-11-30 21:02:58 |
<Krugz> | ah but isn't C# supposed to be an improvement? | 2009-11-30 21:03:15 |
| @.@ | 2009-11-30 21:03:21 |
<Shelwien> | over what? | 2009-11-30 21:03:29 |
| its made to compete with sun's java | 2009-11-30 21:03:48 |
<Krugz> | I thought it was supposed to be an upgrade for C++ essentially | 2009-11-30 21:04:40 |
<Shelwien> | not really | 2009-11-30 21:04:55 |
<Krugz> | I know some stuff about C# but really I have no background in it | 2009-11-30 21:04:57 |
| haven't taken the time to go look into it, probably will soon enough | 2009-11-30 21:05:14 |
| well like, I heard they hid pointers from developers in C#, which made me kinda upset | 2009-11-30 21:05:38 |
<Shelwien> | yeah, there's also a garbage collector running around | 2009-11-30 21:06:09 |
<Krugz> | hmm well other then I/O streams, doesn't C++ usually do garbage cleaning too? | 2009-11-30 21:06:44 |
<Shelwien> | no | 2009-11-30 21:06:59 |
| well, if only in some libraries | 2009-11-30 21:07:17 |
| C++ memory allocation is normally all explicit | 2009-11-30 21:07:33 |
<Krugz> | hmm ya I guess that makes sense | 2009-11-30 21:07:48 |
| I've never really participated in a large-scale C++ program project, so I've never really had to worry about releasing unused memory | 2009-11-30 21:08:17 |
<Shelwien> | http://compressionratings.com/s_scan.html | 2009-11-30 21:08:48 |
| "archiver template" is implemented with STL | 2009-11-30 21:09:09 |
| and my scanner with plain C++ and winapi | 2009-11-30 21:09:34 |
| 5x speed difference ;) | 2009-11-30 21:09:48 |
<Krugz> | :O | 2009-11-30 21:09:56 |
| when you say speed, you mean time to compress the same amount of data? | 2009-11-30 21:10:13 |
<Shelwien> | or decompress | 2009-11-30 21:10:23 |
| but also its usually just impossible to compare them | 2009-11-30 21:10:41 |
| modern compression algorithms tend to use a lot of memory even if written in C++ | 2009-11-30 21:10:59 |
| and it won't be possible to allocate enough memory for a C#/java program using a similar data structure | 2009-11-30 21:11:56 |
<Krugz> | hmm | 2009-11-30 21:12:07 |
| I see | 2009-11-30 21:12:14 |
<Shelwien> | well, if only on x64 with 16GB+ RAM or something ;) | 2009-11-30 21:12:17 |
<Krugz> | is there any better alternative other then C++" | 2009-11-30 21:12:33 |
| ?* | 2009-11-30 21:12:34 |
<Shelwien> | unfortunately no | 2009-11-30 21:12:48 |
<Krugz> | lol I have 16GB RAM! (lies) | 2009-11-30 21:12:49 |
<Shelwien> | i have 8G | 2009-11-30 21:12:58 |
| and 32-bit windows XP | 2009-11-30 21:13:03 |
| and 5GB ramdrive | 2009-11-30 21:13:10 |
<Krugz> | :O | 2009-11-30 21:13:34 |
<Shelwien> | there're no good compilers for languages other than C/C++ | 2009-11-30 21:13:46 |
<Krugz> | this laptop has 3GB, my PC has 4GB :P | 2009-11-30 21:13:47 |
<Shelwien> | well, and fortran | 2009-11-30 21:13:50 |
| but who cares about fortran | 2009-11-30 21:13:55 |
<Krugz> | lol | 2009-11-30 21:13:58 |
| business apps! | 2009-11-30 21:14:03 |
<Shelwien> | swap to ramdrive! | 2009-11-30 21:14:36 |
<Krugz> | ramdrive? o.O | 2009-11-30 21:14:53 |
<Shelwien> | a partition in RAM | 2009-11-30 21:15:15 |
| very useful for temp storage etc | 2009-11-30 21:15:35 |
| and swap to ramdrive actually works | 2009-11-30 21:16:01 |
<Krugz> | partition in RAM? O.o I'm confused | 2009-11-30 21:16:13 |
| do you mean partition on HD to be used like RAM? like paging files? | 2009-11-30 21:16:26 |
<Shelwien> | the inverse | 2009-11-30 21:16:35 |
| RAM used to store files and visible as hdd | 2009-11-30 21:16:46 |
| but reset on reboot | 2009-11-30 21:16:58 |
<Krugz> | how would that improve performance? | 2009-11-30 21:17:26 |
<Shelwien> | well, just think what's the memory access speed, and what's hdd's | 2009-11-30 21:17:55 |
| also no seek time | 2009-11-30 21:18:06 |
<Krugz> | but with cacheing and prefetching, there shouldn't be much HD searching anyways | 2009-11-30 21:18:26 |
<Shelwien> | do you know that windows apps frequently store temp files? | 2009-11-30 21:18:56 |
<Krugz> | ya it's stored in like a temp folder in system32, right? | 2009-11-30 21:19:18 |
<Shelwien> | yeah, and you can redirect it | 2009-11-30 21:19:36 |
<Krugz> | so basically you put those temp files on RAM for faster access? | 2009-11-30 21:20:42 |
<Shelwien> | and also its very good for various repetitive tasks | 2009-11-30 21:20:45 |
| like applying regexps to few GBs of data | 2009-11-30 21:21:02 |
<Krugz> | but those temp files, shouldn't they already be cached? | 2009-11-30 21:21:03 |
<Shelwien> | not good enough, i guess | 2009-11-30 21:21:27 |
| and anyway 32-bit systems won't use that memory | 2009-11-30 21:21:47 |
<Krugz> | hmm? | 2009-11-30 21:22:06 |
<Shelwien> | http://www.geoffchappell.com/viewer.htm?doc=notes/windows/license/memory.htm | 2009-11-30 21:22:33 |
<Krugz> | O.o weird | 2009-11-30 21:25:30 |
| I'd heard some stuff about this before | 2009-11-30 21:25:52 |
| I'll definitely read more into this | 2009-11-30 21:28:33 |
| right now I gotta eat and get ready for class | 2009-11-30 21:28:45 |
| always feels like there's a lot to learn... I don't even know where to really start | 2009-11-30 21:46:27 |
| seems like every time I feel comfortable with something, I find out I don't really know anything about it XD | 2009-11-30 21:46:56 |
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<jack> | any body there | 2009-11-30 23:11:57 |
<Krugz> | just me I think | 2009-11-30 23:13:11 |
<jack> | where are you | 2009-11-30 23:13:35 |
<Krugz> | where? | 2009-11-30 23:15:24 |
* jack slaps jack around a bit with a large fishbot | 2009-11-30 23:15:32 |
| how detailed? | 2009-11-30 23:15:33 |
| I'm US-East Coast | 2009-11-30 23:15:47 |
| that help? | 2009-11-30 23:15:49 |
<jack> | in on the us mexucan border | 2009-11-30 23:16:05 |
| i'm near the border US side | 2009-11-30 23:16:26 |
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<Krugz> | >.> wonder what that was about | 2009-11-30 23:27:05 |
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<Shelwien> | !grep DMCA | 2009-12-01 11:01:33 |
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| !next | 2009-12-01 16:04:18 |